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Neil Reinhardt

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Re: The Evolution Fraud
6/21/2007 6:02:44 PM
DAVE AGAIN: "Science has not proven evolution to those to whom no amount of proof will ever be sufficient. It is totally impossible to prove anything to those who either refuse to learn sufficient information (facts) and/or who deny any facts which prove them wrong." So the response you gave Dave, is about what I expected. I see NO (& I never ever will) intelligent, rational or logical response as to why were have organs and other body parts we really have NO USE for. (And since I forgot them before, I will add toe nails, finger nails and body.) While human embryos don't actually become fish, they do share a number of characteristics with fish embryos. For example, the notorious "gill slits." It is well known in developmental biology gill slits are NOT gills. DUH! Because these "slits" occur in the throat, technically known as the pharynx and they look somewhat like gills, hence the name, "Pharyngeal pouches". And while they superficially resemble fish gills, they have nothing thing to do with any form of respiration. Rather these pharyngeal "pouches" develop into parts of the face, neck, and some important glands! Like ear bones which develop in mammals only! And we, Children, like it or not, ARE MAMMALS! "In man and OTHER mammals, these arches and pouches develop into part of the face, the muscles of mastication and facial expression, bones of the middle ear, and endocrine glands" In reptiles, these bones are part of the jaw, and this intermediate stages of this is an excellent example of evolution in the fossil record. Otherwise, the first two slits become the jawbone, and the other slits become different anatomical structures in different organisms. Guess What? In FISH, oh surprise, surprise, the SAME things we call gill slits in fetuses, become, GILLS! DUH! Hey Dave, If we did not KNOW caterpillars turn it Butterflies, what fosils record would show us the link between them? How about tadpoles turning into frogs? Do they look like a frog at all? If evolution is not possible, how do florists develop new flowers? How can there be so many breeds of dogs? Cows? OR Horses? Whey do the exact same breed of birds living on one island have different shaped bills than those on another island? GEE, could it be because of the food sources are different on one island than on the other island and so evolution drove the birds bills to change to addopt to the food source? Why are the people who live in the hottest areas taller and thinner than those who live in the coldest areas? The facts are, evolution is going on all the time and it is going on all around us 24/7. Just like some believing the earth is flat has no effect on our oval world, some believing evolution is not a fact, have no effect on it at all. Evolution just keeps happening ALL of the time. And those Dave, ARE real FACTS!
This Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach says: For a simple, inexpensive, and great tasting, way to earn money, click here: ----------------------- http://NeilsTeam.jerkydirect.com -------------------- And for a progam which is better than most mlm's I know of
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Neil Reinhardt

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Re: The Evolution Fraud
6/21/2007 6:18:42 PM
Arthur and Dave only again prove what I have said time and time again. The ONLY difference between those who refuse to learn the facts and/or deny the facts proving the Iraq war is fully justified and those who deny evolution is both a proven theory and a proven fact is the subject matter. No amount of proof will ever be sufficient to the members of either group as their minds are made up an things like facts only confuse them. It is totally impossible to prove anything to those who either refuse to learn sufficient information (facts) and/or who deny any facts which prove them wrong.
This Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach says: For a simple, inexpensive, and great tasting, way to earn money, click here: ----------------------- http://NeilsTeam.jerkydirect.com -------------------- And for a progam which is better than most mlm's I know of
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Arthur Webster

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Re: The Evolution Fraud
6/22/2007 4:26:03 AM

Hi, Neil,

It is totally impossible to prove anything to those who either refuse to learn sufficient information (facts) and/or who deny any facts which prove them wrong.

I could not have said it better - BUT who is the pot and who is the kettle?

The Old Coot 

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Dave Cottrell

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Re: The Evolution Fraud
6/23/2007 4:09:48 AM
Hi Neil,

How refreshing to have you back!  It was rather boring while you were away.

So far, you have only proven that your faith in evolution is very high.  Not once have you offered anything that even comes close to proving that it is a fact.  In fact, your arguments simply serve to underline the fact that everything around us looks like it has an amazing designer.

Changes within a species, such as the wide variety of horses, dogs, cats, cows, flowers, etc., do not even begin to prove evolution.  They are often called natural selection when they occur in nature (apart from man's meddling) and are quite different from evolution, which states that everything came from nothing (magic), happens by accident (mutations that are not fatal), and that one species (not breed) evolves into quite a different species altogether.

However, dogs always produce dogs (regardless of the colour, size, temperament, etc.), cats always produce cats, monkeys always produce monkeys, humans always produce humans, etc., etc.  A mule, which is a cross between a horse and a donkey (both from the horse family - Equus), cannot breed and produce offspring - ergo, it is not a species on its own, since it cannot reproduce.

If a mutation, such as the ones that Darwin alluded to regarding the birds in his book, is helpful in the environment it is in, then the chance of the creature surviving and reproducing is higher, giving rise to a population of birds of the same species with characteristics that are different from its ancestors.  Mutations are, in fact, not the addition of new information (evolution), but the LOSS of genetic information (devolution).

Regarding "gill slits," "tails," etc., I would go further than that and say that ALL creatures AND plants have cells, dna, rna, require water, etc.  That is a much greater common ground than just a few minor characteristics.

However, that does not for one second prove evolution.  It does, however, suggest a master designer.

If I discover that a little car has a diesel engine in it, and then discover that a great big bus has the same kind of diesel engine in it, am I to assume that the little car evolved into a great big bus over millions of years? 

If I made that assumption, you would rightfully tell me I'm nuts, uneducated, couldn't read, had comprehension problems, etc., etc.  The intelligent assumption would be that both vehicles had the same intelligent designer, a human being.

The living things we see around us have many shared characteristics, and that is a very good thing.  If everything was very different, many of the things we eat and take for granted would kill us.

However, since everything DOES have so many similarities, we can eat and enjoy a very wide variety of foods without harm and in good health.  From a design point of view, this is VERY good design.  No one has ever seen anything so simple, yet so complex as the vast array of life on this planet occur by random, meaningless chance.

Everything left on its own goes from order to chaos (Law of Entropy - simplified).

"It is totally impossible to prove anything to those who either refuse to learn sufficient information (facts) and/or who deny any facts which prove them wrong."

Correct!  True!  A fact!  Now tell me why, when you can see the incredible complexity of everything around you that you cannot even begin to accept it as possible evidence of a master designer?  The fact is, you do not want to accept such an idea. 

I question everything I believe and find answers that way.  I do not and have never lived by blind faith.  Such a path is folly.  I will never deny anything that proves me wrong.   However, I will need to see the proof before I change my mind.

You may think that you do not live by faith, but the fact is, you, and every person on this planet lives by faith.

You believe that the Earth is round, yet you have never actually observed it.  You've been told, and you've seen pictures.  Based on that information, given to you by someone else, you have accepted, quite reasonably, that the Earth is round.

You also know by faith, unless you've been there, where Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Israel, and a whole host of countries you've never visited are.  Someone told you where they were, either in a book, on the radio, on TV, in person, or all of these, and you believed it.  That's called faith, not proof.  The only way you could prove it is to actually go there and see it for yourself.

All the facts that you share with everyone regarding WMDs in Iraq, and so on, are things that you have accepted by faith based on information that someone you trust has given you.  You don't actually have the proof, yourself, but you trust the people who told you, because you have faith in their trustworthiness.

Evolution is something you believe by faith, just as God is someone I trusted in by faith.  You cannot prove that evolution is a fact, any more than I can prove that God exists.  The difference for me is that God is a person who has revealed himself to me in ways that sadly cannot possibly be explained to someone who has never met him and who is not open to the idea of meeting him.

I hope very much that you DO meet him on this side of eternity.

God bless,

Dave
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