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Beth Schmillen

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RE: IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A COSMIC RELIGION?
8/2/2010 10:09:02 PM
I forgot to sign off!

thanks for a great forum!
Beth

off to play mafia wars now!
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Roger Macdivitt .

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RE: IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A COSMIC RELIGION?
8/2/2010 10:16:14 PM

Wow Beth,

Good process going on there.

I've tried reading this but with other things going on in the room.

Impossible. It really needs some deep thought.

Thank you.

I know that Luis will have some answers here.

I will go away and think about it.

Roger

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Luis Miguel Goitizolo

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RE: IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A COSMIC RELIGION?
8/4/2010 3:08:44 AM
Quote:


Hi Luis and Roger,

I have to admit that reading all of what Einstein wrote was more than I could do today!
But... from what I perused and your comments... I think my comment fits in...

I've always wondered what a person raised to be good, but without any knowlege of any religion, would be like. I had a friend as a child who was much like me. Her parents didn't belong to any church. I knew my mother had been a loving and gracious Christian woman and I had her Bible and had begun reading it by the age of eight years old... But my friend who was also loving and gracious had really no concept of religion.

It would be near impossible to raise and educate a person in our culture without there being an examination of religion because of the world's history and philosophy... it is hard to imagine...

But, assuming one could raise someone with no knowlege of religion(s) or what we call spirituality... Then ... what would the so-called 'god part of the brain' do when stimulated?
(Matthew Alper's book which suggests that "humans are innately hard-
wired to perceive a spiritual reality".)

What imaginings or responses would there be? The person who knew naught of religion would have experienced nature and the beauty of the world, the sorrows the exhilaration of life. The connection to the world and nature that is what some consider a spiritual connection would be experienced in maybe a more fundamental way (fundamental as the word actually means and not describing a religion as fundamental) and the so called 'god-part of the brain' would have to respond to a different set of life-long learnings and perceptions.

I've heard of anthropological studies of peoples who had no god, burial rites or any indication that they had a religion as the Western thought percieves it (William Durant ? wrote of this?)

I may be getting at how our language influences how we perceive the world about us and to have religion one must also have the words/language for this.

So, if one were raised with no language pertaining to religion... how could they have a god-part of the brain?

I can't recall how they stimulate that part of the brain. But it invokes visions and generally reactions relating to ones understandings of their personal beliefs or understandings.

So, would one without religion have a transcendental experience of nature and the world-at-large as they perceive it?

Would say, a medium, one who is in touch with the other-side have a new gateway to their friends on the other-side?

or is it that, because this can be caused by science, it is a part of the brain that processes what is truly not known or meant to be known in an empirical way ... but it is what makes some sort of sense out of the unknown for humanity as part of our evolutionary necessity to survive?

So ... back to a person with no perceptions or knowledge of religion or spirituality...

would this show that there is no such thing as god or spirituality?
that it is a learned behavior?







Dear Beth,
I m so glad that you have taken an interest in our rather modestly presented but, in my opinion, all-important subject matter particularly in the present juncture. The questions you pose are certainly fascinating, and I will try to answer you in what follows.
From the point of view of Western thought it is, in fact, really difficult to understand what religion or God could be or mean or represent for someone raised with no training in such topics - but only if they are considered from a Western frame of mind, that is. Because if you include in your own mind-frame other transcendental approaches like Buddhism, for example, which has actually no concept of God or, for that matter, of religion, the problem more or less becomes inexistent. Why? Because they are rather a spiritual discipline than a religion as we know it.
In my opinion, what religion really means is very difficult to ascertain, as it means different things for different religions. That is the reason why I usually talk about religions.
Even so, your lucubrations remain an interesting matter for study. The real problem is, again in my opinion, that we pretend to have the exclusivity of religion and so when we talk about religion we are actually referring to Christianity or Catholicism and to our particular conception of a God. I remember a talk between my father and a high Catholic priest where the two of them concluded, to their amazement, that the good natives from our jungles indoctrinated by the Catholic missions of our country would have been much better off and pretty happier if they had never learned the Western uses and religion. As it was, they had succumbed to the corruption of civilization and most had become extremely poor for their inability to adapt to it.
And, what would have happened if they had been taught yoga or Buddhist meditation - assuming, of course, that they needed any spiritual instruction - instead of the Catholic doctrine? Probably nothing, but they at least would have not been deprived of their pristine, happy condition. That is the reason I prefer to talk about a "primordial tradition" and not about any religion and if I have to refer to a specific religion, I usually will mention Buddhism as the most akin to a concept of a "cosmic religion".
Furthermore, I do believe all people have a "god part" in their brains (and it is very probable that even animals have it as well). They are born with it. Of course, only human beings can avail themselves of it eventually, if only they can activate it through a genuine process like the one afforded by yoga, for example, even if it is "mantra yoga" or "karma yoga" and not the sort of yoga that we in the West are more familiar with. It doesn't mean that other religious processes cannot activate it as well, only the process might turn more difficult and I would not recommend it for use with aboriginal societies, they are happy as they are and they already have their own transcendental beliefs and spiritual practices.
Note that this kind of yogic "activation" naturally pertains to what we have come to call a "cosmic religion", as man is, in fact, a microcosm with magnetic fields and centers (the "chakras") as any other cosmic body.
There are many more things that could be said about the difficulties you have mentioned, but I think this can do for the moment. If you feel there is something that I have not dealt with adequately or you need more clarification about or, finally, you have any other questions to ask, please tell me.
Thanks again,

Luis Miguel Goitizolo

"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

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Luis Miguel Goitizolo

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RE: IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A COSMIC RELIGION?
8/29/2010 11:00:22 AM

"I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained."
(The "Gnostic" gospel of Thomas, Logion 77)


The Sacred Science - Part 3

Dear Friends,

In the second part of this series we saw how a circle representing the world can be made into a pure metaphysical notion by adding a dot at its center; and how this Center (now with a capital letter) can be said to be a perfect image and ideal representation of God as the Absolute Principle from which, as if by means of radios emanating from it, all material things are manifested.

In this way, and elaborating further on the symbol, the notion of space is introduced and God - himself devoid of any spatial or temporal attributes - can be seen as filling - actually creating, and henceforward maintaining - that very same space by his radiation. That space is the World in the broadest sense of the word - the grouping of all the beings and states of existence that make up the cosmic manifestation.

We saw in turn how time may be brought into the equation also by means of radios that divide the circumference of the circle into so many parts as periods of time they represent. They may be four in number and as was said in Part 2, each one of them will then represent one of the four parts of the day, one of the four seasons of the year, or one of the four ages of mankind or yugas in the traditional sense, and so on. But whether the circle represents God, or the world, or time, it is still its Center, and its relation to the circumference, that are essential.

And why are they essential? Again, because a circle cannot exist without a center. And since the radios originate in it, they only can accentuate such essentiality. In effect, can you imagine a wheel without a hub? No need to answer, you can’t.

Apart from the “quartered” circle, which more specifically symbolizes time in its cyclic or ‘circular’ mode, here are other instances of symbols originated in the circle. They are, from left to right, the circle with six radios (the ‘Wheel of Life’ of Buddhism), the circle with eight radios (the ‘chakra’ of Hinduism and Buddhism), and the (unfortunately infamous) Swastika, here in one circular version. Note that at this time I am only showing them, lest we deviate from the main subject in this particular exposition. Full descriptions and explanations will be given in the next part of this series.


And, there also are the radios themselves to consider. Note that they can also be regarded as infinite in number, which will additionally help figure out how they actually fill out and, in fact, create the intermediate space (i.e. the World) between the center of the circle (God), from which they emanate, and its circumference.

So other than the radios acting as mere subdivisions (usually in number of four) of a circle that represents cyclic time, if now they are rather viewed as individually connecting its center with its circumference and vice versa, their new, essential role becomes readily apparent: they quite naturally become the channels or conduits that, regardless of their number, communicate the two of them, somehow expressing the real and profound nature of their mutual relationship as one of absolute subordination from the circumference to the Center.

In this case, however, there still remains the secondary element, the circumference, to consider: What does it represent? Quite simply, it is not the circumference itself, but the points that make it up that are to be considered; and they individually represent every human being living in the world and forming, all of them together, humanity.

Here we can see, once again, the beauty of a circle as a symbol of the world. In effect, at its center is God as the Absolute Principle of everything created and on its periphery, forming its circumference, is the Crown of His Creation - that is, all of us humans, each inter-connected with Him via the ‘radios’ emanated from Him.

Note that this does not mean that all other hierarchies of living beings and created forms are not also connected with the Center through the multiple radios of this circle, but they can grossly be regarded as distributed over as many other concentric circles within the main circle as may be needed to convey the idea. Because in this world we are all His parts and parcels, we all have proceeded from Him, and to Him we all shall, eventually, return.

(to be continued)

Thank you,

Luis Miguel Goitizolo


"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

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Roger Macdivitt .

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RE: IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A COSMIC RELIGION?
8/29/2010 12:11:28 PM

Fascinating Luis.

I like to think of the infinite radios as spokes that retain the shape and give strength.

Roger

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