Hi Jim,

Quote:

I'm sorry my friend it's a bit difficult to understand your reasoning. The article shows that these training camps are in fact for recruiting and training of terrorists that will act both within the United States and in other parts of the world. They aren't "leaving" cos they are unhappy with their treatment in the US but simply for the fact that they are terrorists and being sent on their missions.

Article talks about young people. These are not terrorists. They just got old enough and they are seeing the deception. They can be easily manipulated by anyone who looks like is their friend. Nobody needs to be a terrorists if their life can be fulfilled with positive developments and support by the society. If the society makes them feel unwelcome, unworthy, categorizes them as dangers, this is exactly what they are becoming. This has nothing to do with Islam as I have shown to you that Muslims were part of Europe for hundreds of years and there was no problems with terrorism there from them.
Look at Northern Ireland. There was no Muslims there for terrorism to happen.

Quote:

So, the disappearances are for "over seas terrorist duty and within the USA and North America". Please remember we are talking about the dangers of Radical Islam and I would say it is staring you in the face and yet you continue denying it.

As I said before, the countries where Muslims are living are being attacked by America not the other way. The Taliban and Al qaeda which American propaganda attempts to show as main villains they fighting against, was created by Americans as terrorist organization during the Afghanistan-Soviet war. During those times Americans were calling them freedom fighters. Today they call them terrorist the same way as Hitler called insurgence in Poland during the IIWW.

Quote:

I've read your links and much to my surprise the Press TV website is an official Iranian "news service". If they are your source for valid and responsible news all I can say is thank you but no thank you. I'll pass on them.

The Iranian site? Here is your bias. Because it is Iranian I should not listen to it.
Jim. This is exactly the reason I should listen to it.
See here how many times this article was quoted.
As you have noticed while we discussing here and while you are on this community, we didn't see a single Muslim person trying to argue with you and defend their position.
You know why?
They are afraid that if they did, this would be opportunity to qualify them as enemies of the US.

Actually Jim said that I must hate US people. Very manipulative. All I'm doing is showing you facts.

During communist time in Poland, anybody publicly denouncing or even criticizing the government would be put on the black list and called enemy of the state and people haters.

They would make sure that you would not ever get a good job or even finish school.
Guess what? America is becoming such a state.
It is becoming a Police state.
To learn anything which happens in mid east, you have to get access to sources which originate from the mid east, anything else is propaganda.

Quote:

The fighting there is between Saudi Arabia and Yemen and that's been admitted to by the Saudi's. They have their own agenda and it has nothing to do with the USA or the western world. As you most probably know all is not well between the different Muslim nations especially between the Egypt/Saudi block and the Iran/Syria/Sudan/Turkey block. It's not hard to find legitimate sources for information.

Really? Ask yourself following questions. Who is supplying Saudis with the fighter jets and with the ammunition? Who is the biggest client of Saudis oil export?
They are in love.
See the picture below. Who do you think they are working for?

Quote:

You keep on using the New York Times as a source as if that makes it proof positive as to the reliability of the information. C'mon Bogdan you know as well as I that they are great fabricators and distorters of news and aren't to be relied on as a source.

I was thinking that since this is an American paper you and Jim would consider it credible. It is part of MSM and it takes source from AP and Reuters which both are owned by illuminates.
By the way which sources are credible for you, let me know.

Bogdan

Quote:
Hi Jim,

Quote:

I'm
sorry my friend it's a bit difficult to understand your reasoning. The
article shows that these training camps are in fact for recruiting and
training of terrorists that will act both within the United States and
in other parts of the world. They aren't "leaving" cos they are unhappy
with their treatment in the US but simply for the fact that they are
terrorists and being sent on their missions.


Article
talks about young people. These are not terrorists. They just got old
enough and they are seeing the deception. They can be easily
manipulated by anyone who looks like is their friend. Nobody needs to
be a terrorists if their live can be fulfilled with positive
developments and support by the society. If the society makes them feel
unwelcome, unworthy, categorizes them as dangers, this is exactly what
they are becoming. This has nothing to do with Islam as I have shown to
you that Muslims were part of Europe for hundreds of years and there
wasno problems with terrorism there from them. Look at Northern Ireland.There was no Muslims there for terrorism to happen.

Bogdan, I'm not convinced even you believe what you wrote above. People who go to to terrorist training camps run by a known terrorist and funded by terrorist organizations and Muslim countries know what they are doing and what they are getting into. In the United States the Muslim community was and still is treated with respect. They were not categorized - although they should have been under more scrutiny due to the many signs and signals that all is not as it should be with many of the American Muslims. Please don't give me European history as proof that there was no terrorism during that period. If you would look at what is happening now and the sheer numbers of Muslims in Europe today you have the dire situation Europe - Eurabia is in today. Remember well over 38,000,000 Muslims throughout Europe and the numbers are growing constantly. As a small minority as the Tartars were in Poland (remnants of the Caliphate) they were well integrated into the Polish society. This was true in other European countries where they were small
minorities. Once they grew into larger and stronger communities their behavior changed accordingly and that was and still is true throughout Europe. Today the problem is a serious one even if you don't see it or admit to it.

Quote:
Quote:

So, the disappearances are for "over seas terrorist duty and within the USA
and North America". Please remember we are talking about the dangers of
Radical Islam and I would say it is staring you in the face and yet you
continue denying it.

As I said before, the
countries where Muslims are living are being attacked by America not
the other way. The Taliban and Al qaeda which American propaganda
attempts to show as main villains they fighting against, was created by
Americans as terrorist organization during the Afghanistan-Soviet war.
During those times Americans were calling them freedom fighters. Today
they call them terrorist the same way as Hitler called insurgence in
Poland during the IIWW.

You're gonna have to decide if these Muslims are Americans or Iraqis, Afghans or Somalis etc. The majority of these terrorists in training are American born so their loyalty should be to America. If they are true Americans but here is where the difference is. Their religion is above and beyond any loyalty they have to the country of their birth or adopted country. And that Bogdan is the crux of the problem. Islam demands total submission to the Koran and not to the country they live in if it isn't an Islamic country under shariah law. Take Nidal Hasan the Jihadi terrorist that massacred 13 in Fort Hood and wounded over 30. He was born and raised in the United States and yet his loyalty wasn't to his country but to Islam. All you have to do is read and not try to find excuses for their actions all the time.

What ever Al Qaeda and Taliban were they now are full blown terrorist organizations. Deny it if you wish but that's a fact.

Quote:
Quote:

I've read your links and much to my surprise the Press TV website is an
official Iranian "news service". If they are your source for valid and
responsible news all I can say is thank you but no thank you. I'll pass
on them.


The Iranian site? Here is your bias. Because it is Iranian I should not listen to it.

Jim. This is exactly the reason I should listen to it. See here how many times this article was quoted.

Asyou have noticed while we discussing here and while you are on thiscommunity, we didn't see a single Muslim person trying to argue withyou and defend their position. You know why?
They are afraid that if they did, this would be opportunity to qualify them as enemies of the US.

Actually Jim said that I must hate US people. Very manipulative. All I'm doing is showing you facts.

Duringcommunist time in Poland, anybody publicly denouncing or evencriticizing the government would be put on the black list and calledenemy of the state and people haters.
They would make sure that you would not ever get a good job or even finish school.

Guess what? America is becoming such a state. It is becoming a Police state.

To learn anything which happens in mid east, you have to get access to
sources which originate from the mid east, anything else is propaganda.

Bogdan, if you want to use Iranian sources for your "proof" be my guest but don't expect others to accept your sources as valid. Anything coming out of that lunatic regime can't be depended on. At the same time that you are using them as sources they are murdering their own people on a daily basis that want to overthrow that tyrannical and corrupt regime. Hmmm, I wonder if your reply will be that the CIA is behind the protests and revolution in Iran?! :)

You said that Jim is being manipulative by saying you hate America and the American people. Sorry my friend but from the way you write about America all I see is America bashing and trashing. According to what you write America is the root of all evil and I certainly don't agree with that and I have yet to see any facts aside from rumors and innuendos.

America is not a police state yet. If B Hussein has his way it might become one but so far it isn't. And that's the reason for his plummeting popularity in the year since he's taken office and if they continue as they are hopefully there will be big changes in the mid term elections in 2010.

Quote:
Quote:
The fighting there is between Saudi Arabia and Yemen and that's been
admitted to by the Saudi's. They have their own agenda and it has
nothing to do with the USA or the western world. As you most probably
know all is not well between the different Muslim nations especially
between the Egypt/Saudi block and the Iran/Syria/Sudan/Turkey block.
It's not hard to find legitimate sources for information.

Really? Ask yourself following questions. Who is supplying Saudis with the
fighter jets and with the ammunition? Who is the biggest client of Saudis oil export?
They are in love. See the picture below. Who do you think they are working for?

Yep really. Let's see if I understand your argument. When a person is murdered by a Smith Wesson weapon is the manufacturer to blame for the murder? If the Saudis would have bought the Mirage fighter jets the French would have been to blame? Come on Bogdan let's be serious. And yes the US is the biggest client of oil from the Saudis and that's a d*amn shame. They could be manufacturing their own and not be dependent on buying from others. That would be a completely different picture then. Hmmmm, at least we agree on one point so far. :)

Now in regard to the picture the claim is that it's photo shopped. I could show different pictures but this post is long enough as is.

Quote:
Quote:

Youkeep on using the New York Times as a source as if that makes it proof
positive as to the reliability of the information. C'mon Bogdan you
know as well as I that they are great fabricators and distorters of
news and aren't to be relied on as a source.

I was thinking that since this is an American paper you and Jim would
consider it credible. It is part of MSM and it takes source from AP and
Reuters which both are owned by illuminates.

By the way which sources are credible for you, let me know.

Bogdan

I very rarely if ever use newspapers or any of the MSM as sources. There are a myriad of sources on the net and I use many of them. If you read my posts you'll see that. And as I said in a previous post they are factual as opposed to your Iranian source. Occasionally I might use Fox news cos they are more reliable then the rest but also very rarely since the Saudis are part owners there too. BTW, the Wall Street Journal is also a fairly reliable source for an MSM news paper definitely more then the NY Times that once was one of the best and now is one of the worst rags out there.

Shalom,

Peter

P.S.I welcome any Muslim that wishes to post in this thread (Jim's) or anyof mine. I have no problem discussing this with Muslims and I've beendoing so for many years. In addition if you wish I can bring youreports and articles by Muslims and ex Muslims (some already postedhere) that claim and preach about the dangers of Radical Islam.

Quote:


Bogdan, I'm not convinced even you believe what you wrote above. People who go to to terrorist training camps run by a known terrorist and funded by terrorist organizations and Muslim countries know what they are doing and what they are getting into.

The people who are trained as terrorists today, during the war with Soviet Union were trained by Americans in the same training camps to be terrorists against Russians. Americans thought them how to be terrorists first. Those camps were created with American money (probably obtained from drug trade in some other parts of the world) and American know-how. Don't call them radical Muslims now when before they were for you freedom fighters.

Quote:

You're gonna have to decide if these Muslims are Americans or Iraqis, Afghans or Somalis etc. The majority of these terrorists in training are American born so their loyalty should be to America. If they are true Americans but here is where the difference is. Their religion is above and beyond any loyalty they have to the country of their birth or adopted country. And that Bogdan is the crux of the problem. Islam demands total submission to the Koran and not to the country they live in if it isn't an Islamic country under shariah law. Take Nidal Hasan the Jihadi terrorist that massacred 13 in Fort Hood and wounded over 30. He was born and raised in the United States and yet his loyalty wasn't to his country but to Islam. All you have to do is read and not try to find excuses for their actions all the time.

What ever Al Qaeda and Taliban were they now are full blown terrorist organizations. Deny it if you wish but that's a fact.

Over 100 militia groups, tea-party participants, 9/11 truthers and young radicalized Muslims all have the same enemy and this is US government. They all see different problems with it and have different ideas how to approach it, but they all feel strongly that US government is screwing them. When it comes to closure, all this people will join their forces.

Quote:


Bogdan, if you want to use Iranian sources for your "proof" be my guest but don't expect others to accept your sources as valid. Anything coming out of that lunatic regime can't be depended on. At the same time that you are using them as sources they are murdering their own people on a daily basis that want to overthrow that tyrannical and corrupt regime. Hmmm, I wonder if your reply will be that the CIA is behind the protests and revolution in Iran?! :)

Keep in mind that this kind of sources are available in Europe. I listen daily to news from Poland and occasionally from Germany. They seem to feed their news from both ends.
And here 150,000 mln Russians are exposed to your hated journalist.
http://rt.com/Politics/2009-12-29/detroit-terror-act-fake.html

Ron Paul doesn't see things much differently than I see it. Listen to the portion he speaks about Yemen.

Quote:

You said that Jim is being manipulative by saying you hate America and the American people. Sorry my friend but from the way you write about America all I see is America bashing and trashing. According to what you write America is the root of all evil and I certainly don't agree with that and I have yet to see any facts aside from rumors and innuendos.

There is a difference in saying that you hate American people, and that you hate American Government or American policies.

When you mean the second, all you are doing you are exposing your opinion to the American people and are giving them the chance to respond to it or do something about it.

The Polish communist government used to say to its opposition that they are enemies of the people knowing that this person had courage to say what majority of people thought. By calling such person enemy of the people, they were making the case to persecute this person legaly and also to have moral authority to do it.

It turned out that things went the other way in the end. They were the enemies of the people. They truth is that those who were applauding government before, switched quickly when the government lost its power and the started applauding new Solidarity government.

Don't mix feelings towards people with feelings toward government. As I can say I had strong feelings against Nazis, I didn't have such feeling against German people.

American Government is tiny bit away from becoming totalitarian regime and the time is running out for those who want to take advantage of it.

By defending US policies you are standing on the side of totalitarian regime in my eyes. I'm hoping that world will act soon enough so we again don't re-leave times of Nazis.

Bogdan Fiedur

Quote:


The people who are trained as terrorists today, during the war with Soviet Union were trained by Americans in the same training camps to be terrorists against Russians. Americans thought them how to be terrorists first. Those camps were created with American money (probably obtained from drug trade in some other parts of the world) and American know-how. Don't call them radical Muslims now when before they were for you freedom fighters. [/quote}

Hi Bogdan,

I guess we're talking about different things in regard to the training camps. You're talking about training camps in Afghanistan and I'm talking about the camps within the United States. The camps within the US are run by known terrorists and funded by them and different Muslim countries. Their actions and training are Radical Islam and geared to attack both within the US and outside the US something they've already started to do.

Quote:
Over 100 militia groups, tea-party participants, 9/11 truthers and young radicalized Muslims all have the same enemy and this is US government. They all see different problems with it and have different ideas how to approach it, but they all feel strongly that US government is screwing them. When it comes to closure, all this people will join their forces.

The grass roots organizations, Tea Party and possibly the militia groups are all fighting to retain their inalienable rights under the constitution that B Hussein and his regime are trying to take away from them. Radical Islam doesn't recognize the Constitution and all they know and believe in is the Koran and Sharia law. They will not be joining forces with patriotic Americans willing to fight for their country. The law they want to impose on all infidels is Islamic/Sharia law and if you've read even a little you know what their solution is for non believers a definition that includes everyone that isn't a Muslim or willing to convert to Islam. Wake up and see the differences between Radical Islam and all the other organizations fighting for their rights within the USA.

Quote:
Keep in mind that this kind of sources are available in Europe. I listen daily to news from Poland and occasionally from Germany. They seem to feed their news from both ends.
And here 150,000 mln Russians are exposed to your hated journalist.
http://rt.com/Politics/2009-12-29/detroit-terror-act-fake.html

Ron Paul doesn't see things much differently than I see it. Listen to the portion he speaks about Yemen.

If you are satisfied with news sources that quotes participants in the war fare without anyone validating what they said is quite sad. That's exactly what the MSM does. They hear what the fighter says and accept it as the holy grail without checking the source in any way matter or form. I don't hate Tarpin but I certainly don't take what he says as proof of anything since he never brings any proof to the table. If he was there and saw it happening that would be a different story but as you very well know that isn't the case. Hearsay, rumors and innuendos. All sleazy tactics and and with his communistic past doesn't surprise me in the least. So for me the Iranian news source is dubious to say the least and Tarpin's repeating it makes it even more so.

Ron Paul isn't one of my "heroes" but his fight against the Fed is the one good thing he is doing. Long term not accomplishing much regardless of the supposed audit of the fed the committee approved. I'll believe it when it happens. What he has to say about the obvious failure of the security forces in regard to the Nigerian terrorist I also agree with. Inexplicable incompetence and not the first time that's happened. Napolitano is an incompetent and hasn't got a clue. She had the audacity to say the system worked. Unreal.

About Yemen. Once again questionable since if the Saudi's wouldn't have bought the jet fighters from the US they would have bought from France or Russia that would gladly supply them with all sorts of weapons like they're doing with the Iranians.

Quote:
There is a difference in saying that you hate American people, and that you hate American Government or American policies.

When you mean the second, all you are doing you are exposing your opinion to the American people and are giving them the chance to respond to it or do something about it.

The Polish communist government used to say to its opposition that they are enemies of the people knowing that this person had courage to say what majority of people thought. By calling such person enemy of the people, they were making the case to persecute this person legaly and also to have moral authority to do it.

It turned out that things went the other way in the end. They were the enemies of the people. They truth is that those who were applauding government before, switched quickly when the government lost its power and the started applauding new Solidarity government.

Don't mix feelings towards people with feelings toward government. As I can say I had strong feelings against Nazis, I didn't have such feeling against German people.

American Government is tiny bit away from becoming totalitarian regime and the time is running out for those who want to take advantage of it.

By defending US policies you are standing on the side of totalitarian regime in my eyes. I'm hoping that world will act soon enough so we again don't re-leave times of Nazis.

Bogdan Fiedur

Let me start by saying that you don't read everything that we are saying in this thread and for the past 2 + years in many other threads and forums. I certainly don't support this president or his regime. I believe he's ruining the US at a faster pace then any one thought possible and that's the reason for his plummeting popularity. No president has fallen so low in his first year in office as B Hussein since they started checking ratings of this sort back in the 30s I believe. His Marxist/socialistic agenda is a disaster and aside from bankrupting the US he is also eroding the freedoms all US citizens are entitled to. He is very close to becoming a "ruler" instead of a leader something he might think is his right but aside from the fact that he isn't qualified to be a dog catcher the people certainly won't allow that to happen. I believe it's slowly seeping into his reality that he and his regime are in big trouble and 2010 will not be a bumper year for him quite the opposite.

Now when you add to the above his Islamic agenda the situation is even worse. As I've repeatedly said he advocates, supports and promotes Islam every chance he has and fails to take the actions necessary to thwart their agenda for world domination.

Shalom,

Peter