Hi Jack; I'm assuming you mean by the definitions I posted in response to Lingo. I would definitely avoid "TRUE" autosurf (a lot of people get these mixed up, as I explained to Lingo) because, of course, a software program sending hits to the server can't buy anything. lol Traffic Swarm is the third (people) type, yes. The kind where real live people are viewing the ads. I have tried Traffic Swarm and got a few results, but you have to have a really, really dymanic offer to grab eyeballs. I have no ethical problem with their modus operandi... I stopped using them simply because I didn't find it to be an effective use of my time or effort. They did get some results, but not earth moving. The programs that allow you to buy keywords aren't great shakes either, because viewers have to install software for it to work. Adland I don't view as any of the above. It's a classified ad site - but I think the forums have easily as much power. I read a press release that Bogdan put out and he described it wonderfully. He compared Adland to crossing a dating site with a classified site for business. The power of "seeing" the photo and profile of the person posting the ads is dynamic. And I agree. For that reason, I think a great sig file is a very powerful thing here, which is under utilized and overlooked by many. I actually think that if a person coordinated their ads with their sig file, they'd see better response. I haven't done that yet myself (lol shame on me) but I think it's an idea with good merit. It's all about helping people remember you. They see an ad. And again. And again. And then they see the EXACT same words in your sig file... but now with a picture beside it. Odds are, they'll click. I know I have. PPC (pay per click) I have gotten great results with. I am running several Google Adwords Campaigns for clients at present. I've pretty much dropped Overture because they just don't perform like Google Ads do. That makes good sense, since Google currently has a higher marketshare than Yahoo engines do.... and that could change, but right now, I'm seeing better results with Adwords. Even in saying that, a person has to know HOW to run campaigns or they can easily eat up their budget and see no results. The key is to drill down and target as specifically as you can first. Avoid anything "generic" For example, if you sold tea, you would not want to buy the word "tea" or even "tea leaves" - far too generic. They'll cost you too much and you'll lose money because of the people that want a "specific" kind of tea that you don't carry. And cost for generic words is high. An exact phrase like "white chi tea" will bring you specific searchers. Then, the key is NOT to send them to your main page, but to a specially crafted page that offers them -- tada -- white chi tea. ======================================= I'm struggling with getting "meaningfull visitors " ======================================= I love that term! Excellent, most excellent. Yes, that is what you want... meaningful visitors. Not people that look and leave. One thing I like to say is that I'd rather have 10 people that came to buy than 100 people who have no interest in what I sell. But - even in saying that - the risk of targeted marketing is that it assumes we live in a vacuum - which we don't. We all have friends and family and coworkers that we'll pass something on to if it might be of interest to them. I can't think of how often I've sent my daughter or sisters or brother a link I think they'd like... or vice verse. The key to getting meaningful visitors is to provide meaningful information. For some people, adding content to their site is no problem. For others, a blog is an easier and less expensive way to do it. In your case, your blog is a great area to do that. Post something sincerely helpful every day. Take three days a week to promote your blog. At first, it will seem like you're talking to thin air. lol. But suddenly, you'll start to see response. Once it starts, it becomes like a snowball, growing bigger faster. The honest to goodness truth is that people use the Internet, first and foremost, to find information. When they find someone doling it out - the results will come. It's like the farmer and his crop. He plants in March. He doesn't abandon the farm in April. Nope. He weeds and tends and waters and weeds some more. And in the fall? Then he harvests the bounty. It really does work that way. : ) Linda

Another book to put on the list. Good timing Linda, I'm off to Chapters this week!

========================================== Another book to put on the list. Good timing Linda, I'm off to Chapters this week! ========================================== Pssst..... want my wish list? lol I can PM you my address. HO HO HO. Books from my wish list always were my favorite gift. LOL Kidding! : ) Linda

Greer can you please answer this for me and see if I can gain some further clarity; If I joined one of these schemes and did my daily surfing where would the money I make come from? Now not being in America I ask the following; Which laws take precident over the Internet when a Ponzi or Pyramid is being looked at, state or federal? Also remember this, Ponzi and pyramid schemes may also be characterized by: - Reliance on funds from new investors to pay returns, commissions or bonuses to old investors; - Need for an inexhaustible supply of new investors; and - Absences of a profitable product or efforts to make profits through productive work. You stated the following: I don't think it ought to fall under your purview as an ALP Advisor to comment on, because i don't think you are qualified to talk about traffic exchanges or paid autosurfs in a meaningful, responsible way -- since you're not a current or historical user of that marketing modality, how much of a credible nature could you possibly have to offer? If not an ALP Advisor then who should try to inform people. In the above you question the abacence of credible nature based upon not having joined one of these and particpiating. True, I for one have not, but then I also have not worked the streets pimping, nor have I engaged in bank robbery, but that doesn't mean I cannot speak out against them. I can quote what the law states about both and post the information I find, just as I have done in the case of autosurfs and the possibility that they might fall under the catagories of a ponzi or pyramid. Now what do you consider to be responsible, signing up to test these and in doing so creating a downline of people intent on trying to make some money without knowing first if they are legal or not. Sounds like a plan, a bad plan but a plan. I have seen where many others state be careful you are taking a risk when signing up with these programs only gamble with what you can afford to lose. Oh Oh, did someone say gamble? Yes many people refer to this as gambling with money, but wait Batman isn't gambling regulated? I read where gambling-law-us.com presents, explains and analyzes the patchwork of state and federal and state gambling laws. So in North Carolina what do we find when we look at the statues releated to ponzi and pyraminds? 14-291.2.Pyramid and chain schemes prohibited. (a) No person shall establish, operate, participate in, or otherwise promote any pyramid distribution plan, program, device or scheme whereby a participant pays a valuable consideration for the opportunity or chance to receive a fee or compensation upon the introduction of other participants into the program, whether or not such opportunity or chance is received in conjunction with the purchase of merchandise. A person who establishes or operates a pyramid distribution plan is guilty of a Class H felony. A person who participates in or otherwise promotes a pyramid distribution plan is deemed to participate in a lottery and is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (b) "Pyramid distribution plan" means any program utilizing a pyramid or chain process by which a participant gives a valuable consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation or things of value in return for inducing other persons to become participants in the program; and "Compensation" does not mean payment based on sales of goods or services to persons who are not participants in the scheme, and who are not purchasing in order to participate in the scheme.... Now you said: I checked out NC statute, since that's where i live, and from what i can see, pyramids are illegal in this state if the participant is paying for the privilege of recruiting and then selling products to downliners. Paid autosurfs don't attempt to do that as far as I can see. So I just don't see a problem here in NC. I think you better re-read the statute above which is th NC statute and sounds different to me than what you said it said. Question, can a Federal employee be dismissed from their job with lose of pension if they are busted for and convicted of a crime? Food for thought... As I have said previously if it smells like dog poop and feels like dog poop please do not ask me to taste it to see if it is dog poop. You can taste it fine yourself, cause 2 out 3 ain't all that bad for me. Just the facts, ma'm, just the facts. As always, I leave it to you the reader to determine for yourself if the facts help to illuminate anything for you and help brighten up those nasty little things lurking in the dark shadows.

Hi everybody, Wow! What an exchange. It took me quite a while even to read all that. Greer, if I can just throw my own perspective in at this point, where you stated: =========================== "Further, having looked at your web sites, Linda (and also Gary and Peter), I now understand why you are so antagonistically disposed toward any marketing approach you are not specialized in or promoting -- for those that are savvy enough not to take things at face value, your rejection of all that you don't embrace gives you all the appearance in the world of having a significant conflict of interest viz-a-viz traffic exchanges of any kind." ============================ I wouldn't say I am "antagonistically disposed." Like, I'm not prepared to whack anybody over a difference of opinion on ANYTHING. Really, it's not THAT important. Not to me anyway. I have put my views. Others have too. You have. It's just open discussion. Giving both sides of the subject allows people to make up their own minds. Democratic debate. Several years ago, with my old site, I did sign up with Traffic Swarm. I put up with it for a while but pretty much wrote it off as a waste of time. Everybody was just going clickety-click to keep their required number of clicks up. To me, that was just dumb. But I tried it. Just like I have tried MLM and a number of other things. I don't have to taste beetroot from very country of the world to know that I don't like beetroot. Others love it. I detest it. My taste, my choice. Traffic exchange... Most of the time I was just click, wait the 20 or 30 second time limit, then click again. After the novelty wore off for me I stopped even looking at the sites. I was just clicking - like playing the "one arm bandit" in some casino. When I stopped looking at the sites I figured very quickly that others were doing the same. So I stopped. Greer, OK I will agree with you - some of my comments are fairly strong. I just didn't want people to waste the time and money that I did doing useless things that are bound not to work - in my opinion. I have said this ad-infinitum here on these forums but I'll say it yet again... everybody is free to make their own choices. I don't have the decisive rights on all ideas - far from it. Ask Linda about some of my ideas. Some of them, looking back, were just dumb. But you test and measure to see what works. If things don't work you stop doing them. If they work you try little variations to try to get them to work better. Peter has used the dog-poop analogy which, incidentally, I find seriously amusing. Take note Peter - I am gonna start using that over here in Oz! I have a similar saying: ...If it looks like a duck and it waddles like a duck and it has webbed feet and goes "quack-quack" then there's every chance that it is, in fact, a duck. People can call it a swan if they want but it is still a duck. So what if Gary Simpson thinks these things are duds. That's just MY opinion. I think George Bush is a bit of a dud too but millions of people vote for him. My opinion won't change their opinions. I'll leave that to serial critic Michael Moore. My site... That is dedicated to people who want to achieve things in their life. I don't run these schemes or promote them because personally, I don't believe in them. In fact, I have five articles on my article page that sarcastically criticize all sorts of mercenary schemes designed to take money and give little or nothing in return. I reviewed them several weeks ago to see if they are still relevant. They were written in 2002 and, yes, they are still relevant. The schemes just keep roping in an ever increasing number of newbies desperate to get results with their fledgling websites. If others engage in these schemes and they are getting results that they are happy with - GREAT. That is their choice. Maybe some people don't like my website. I don't care. I know where I'm going with it. I'm always happy to clarify anything I say or any opinion I have. That is all I was doing here. Finally, I can still interact with people whose opinions on certain subjects are diametrically opposed to mine. I don't think less of anybody who doesn't agree with me. Heck, I'm not always right - just 99.9% of the time - ONLY JOKING! Gary Simpson