Hi Gary, I still trust this person but I am no longer doing the auto-surfs. They are useless to promote my products and risky for making money. =========================== I believe what we are promoting here, rather than rubbishing things as some believe, is a concept known as "due diligence." Do the homework rather than follow the lemmings. =========================== Due diligence to me means checking the rating sites and try to find out where the money comes from to support the program. The rating sites will tell you that people have been getting paid. That does not mean the site isn't going to shut down tomorrow. Many of these programs will not tell you where the money comes from. Even the sites backed by Forex investments depend on the admin making the right investment decisions. One wrong decision and they are out of business. When you put money into an auto-surf program you are betting that you are going to make a profit and get out before they program shuts down. I could name a few programs that the admin seems to have a professional attitude and show concern for their members. This does not mean that something beyond their control will not happen tomorrow and cause them to shut down. In Linda's forums you will never be unpopular for discussing the issues. Even when people disagree, everyone's input is important and respected. That is how we find the truth and help each other.

------------------------------------------- Due diligence to me means checking the rating sites . . . ------------------------------------------- Arthur, Out of curosity, who operates the rating sites? Do these sites offer sign-up links to many of these programs? See where I'm going with this??? To me these are just a few more questions people should be asking themselves before signing-up with any program be it auto-surf or any other program.

I don't know who runs most of them but the way they work is that when you get paid by a surf program you can go to one of these sites and rate the program that just paid you. The same if you don't get paid or they are late paying. http://surfingdaddy.com/ is one of the rating sites if you would like to look. Dadanddave is also another one. They run their own auto-surf and rate the others. Those are the two I used to use to try and find if it was safe to invest.

Hi: Arthur said; ========================================== ...I am no longer doing the auto-surfs. They are useless to promote my products and risky for making money... ========================================== Right you are. 1) Autosurfs - by their very definition - are (indeed) useless to promote products. I can set up a piece of software to send hits to a server so your hit counter and traffic go up. But, software doesn't have a Visa and it doesn't buy anything. Just sending hits to a server to see one's traffic counter go up shows that person's ignorance of how traffic and hits work. Know what "HITS" means? How Idiots Track Success. remember that when people talk to you about hits. 2 Making money by breaking the law is always risky I've read all sorts of opinions - not just in my forum, but other forums, too. I've actually read one person say something to the effect that no matter "what" you sell, you're getting your money at someone else's expense, so why would it matter if pyramids make money for those at the top because of the payments of those at the bottom. I would love to understand that person's perspective, but I can't get my head that far up my bottom. Classic self deceipt of mammoth proportions. If I sell you a computer for $600, I know you got something for your money. I made my profit honestly. If I convince you to invest $600 in a pyramid so I get paid MY return, but you lose the money you invested - there's a huge difference. But maybe just to folks with ethics, though... I truly believe there are people who don't "see" the difference. The fact is, we can sit around and debate whether it's better to rob a bank wearing a ski mask, pantyhose pulled over our heads or wearing a Halloween costume - but the fact is that robbing a bank is an illegal way to make money. The question isn't whether it will work. There's LOTS of ways to make money that work. You can rob a bank. Or roll a little old lady. Or work the streetcorners. Or sell drugs on the schoolgrounds, I hear kids are easy prey. Those things feel icky? Well, heck, then why not start (or join) a pyramid? They're illegal too, but maybe not "quite" as smarmy as some of the others. The classic USA Government description of a pyramid is that a pyramid takes money from people coming in to pay the people already owed. A true MLM uses sales of a product or service to pay people. Take 12dailypro for example. Where could they possibly "invest" money to get a 12% return in 12 days? Please someone show me, because banks and legitimate investment companies can't seem to do it. The only place I can see is that they're taking the money from people coming in to pay those owed. AND - that's what the members are saying. LISTEN to them. They all talk about recruiting and their recruits making their investments, and then they'll be smiling. If that's what they are doing, that constitutes a pyramid and it's illegal. If that's NOT what they're doing - I would like SOMEONE to show me where they're making 12% in 12 days legally and legitimately. Risky? Absolutely. In more ways than one. When anyone chooses to make money through an illegal methodology the risk isn't just whether you'll make money. It's also whether you'll get caught. On the Internet, no one gets to wear a ski mask. Your IP address goes along with you everywhere you go. : ) Linda

Howdy Winston: I get your drift! ======================= "Out of curosity, who operates the rating sites? Do these sites offer sign-up links to many of these programs? See where I'm going with this???" ======================= Caesar recommending Caesar. To explain: "due diligence" = personal investigation. To be diligent. Linda, I find it difficult to disagree with anything much that you say on these forums. Your last post echoes so many of my sentiments exactly. =========================== "I've actually read one person say something to the effect that no matter "what" you sell, you're getting your money at someone else's expense, so why would it matter if pyramids make money for those at the top because of the payments of those at the bottom. I would love to understand that person's perspective, but I can't get my head that far up my bottom. Classic self deceipt of mammoth proportions." ============================ Totally agree. Isn't it better to exchange something of value between both parties? To have one win because the other lost doesn't seem fair to me. Gary Simpson