thanks Jack -- I'm way more experienced in stocks and mutual funds, but recently, as a result of my interest in the autosurfs, I've been looking at the FOREX. That seems to be where the more legitimate autsrufs are getting most of their external income streams. My thought that I've been developing alongside what I've articulated above is, why mess with questionable autosurfs and HYIPs if FOREX and penny stocks do the trick? The thing is, that I tend to get hooked on fundamental and technical analysis -- and that can be every bit as time consuming as networking. There's no easy answers to the equation it seems. I'll try to check out your web site mre this weekend Jack. Greer

Bob, Thank you. A big DUH for me. I'm not feeling all my brightest right now.

Hi Greer; ======================================= I noted this morning that EstrixSurf is closing down. They were a relatively hi yield program that fall into the category of programs that last for a few months and close. I was thinking about it last nite. One way to avoid the Ponzie trap might be to only consider programs that are at least one year old. The pattern seems to be that autosurfs that rely too heavily on Ponzi fold in four to six months. ======================================= Using "age" of a program as a judgement criteria is a dangerous way to think. The criteria that makes a program a pyramid (according to the USA govt) is that they use money from new investments to pay previous investors. So, you invest your money today. Over the next 12 days (or 5, or 30, etc) other people come in. Their "investments" pay your return. With that structure, longevity isn't the key. The key is how long they can continue to bring in enough new money to keep paying the owed people. Waiting a year could actually put you closer to the bottom of the pyramid, thus increasing the odds that you're going to lose money when it collapses and there's not enough money to keep paying the people at the top. Food for thought. : ) Linda

Good point Linda, Over time, the base of the pyramid widens. When breaking point is achieved, lots of people across that ever-widening base will lose their money. Naturally, the ones at the top will be insulated from that. Not co-incidentally they will be the ones who got the whole think geometrically progressing in the first place. Peter, Paul, Robin Hood... Gary Simpson

=========================== Peter, Paul, Robin Hood... =========================== Well - steal from Peter to pay Paul, yes. Robin Hood was said to steal from the rich and give to the poor. Pyramids take money away from the poor more often than not. It's like Robin Hood went through the looking glass and nibbled on one of those funny looking mushrooms and - poof - turned into the pied piper of people... lol