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Peter Fogel

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Re: HSIG - The 2 State Solution - Is It Wishful Thinking?
5/18/2009 12:53:13 AM

Hello Friends,

Todays Dry Bones caused me once again to pause and think about all the events happening here in Israel.

Some of you that know me well are aware that my natural inclinations are against a 2 state solution for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. While all in Israel sincerely want peace and have done much to attain that peace many of us don't believe our partner in the peace process is sincere or is capable of keeping any agreements and that is based on past experience that none of the agreements to date were kept by the Palestinian Authority. That has been made even more difficult since Hamas gained control over Gaza and has done nothing since other then to sabotage the peace talks and doesn't deny that in the least. Their objective and agenda is to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

That said for the past few years I've been a supporter of the 2 State solution putting aside my strong political and ideological beliefs to give peace a chance. I wish my children, grandchildren and future generations to be able to live in peace and harmony with our neighbors and not have war as an option over their heads as we lived and still live.

The main problem is that the Hamas and PLO/Fatah can't seem to get their act together and Hamas publicly proclaims they aren't interested as their charter states. The truth is that the PLO is more "moderate" but not totally committed aside from lip service other wise they would have tried to keep the agreements already signed but they've failed to do that. Their main objective and agenda is to demand more concessions while they concede nothing at all. In their opinion this is a one way street and as much as we want peace without the PA participating in the give and take in order to make it happen they foolishly think Israel will commit suicide in order to keep the world happy.

I can assure you that's not going to happen.

This reminds of the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. This was a one sided affair and our then PM Ariel Sharon thought it would be an act to show our good will and he was also convinced that this would enhance the security of Israel. You must remember that the withdrawal wasn't only military but many communities and villages that were flourishing for over 30 years in the area. Many of these families haven't recovered yet and in hind site it was in fact a tactical error and gave the area to Hamas and we all know the results of that action.

All in all we in Israel all want peace regardless of political orientation but differ in how it should be brought about. There is a consensus aside from the extreme left here that the PA isn't capable nor truly interested in peace in addition to the fact they aren't capable of keeping agreements so how will they maintain peace?

Here's todays Dry Bones.

Shalom,

Peter



I was listening to two Israeli Knesset members arguing about the "Two State Solution" on TV last night. Most folks just won't admit that the Palestinians are not prepared or able to build a modern, democratic state that could live in peace with a Jewish State of Israel. And yet, even to my ears, the supporter of the Two State Solution seemed to be a "nicer person". She was totally naive but there's something appealing about a dreamer. The problem was that her dream was a self-delusional fantasy. Thinking about that lead me to do today's cartoon.
* * *
There's an online "SAY NO TO U.S. PRESSURE ON ISRAEL" Petition. It's been put up by the Stand With Us people. It opposes "U.S. pressure on Israel for premature concessions that will put Israeli security at risk". To see the petition click here.
Peter Fogel
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Peter Fogel

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Re: HSIG - The Great Decline Of Christians In Islamic Countries
5/18/2009 9:58:39 AM
Hello Friends,

Last week I wrote an article about Pope Benedict XVI visit to Israel and mentioned that many were disappointed by issues not addressed, issues addressed in a general manner and what wasn't mentioned  was the disappointment and matters that shouldn't have been addressed at least in the manner that it was.

The main crux of the article was the Pope's visit to Bethlehem where no mention was made of all the Christians murdered and butchered by Muslims all over the world especially in Africa. An additional point was the great decrease in the Christian population of Bethlehem caused by constant and continuous harassment, killing, stealing of land etc by the PLO and Hamas.

Below you'll find an article that not only supports my first post but goes further with many details about how Christians are treated in Muslim countries and they are decreasing in all of them either by death or emigrating from their countries of birth to save their lives.

The amazing statistic in the below article is that Christians are flourishing in Israel.
In the past 12 years the Christian population in Israel GREW by 25% surpassing the growth of the Jewish population by 4%. Israel respects and supports all religions and as a point of interest for those not aware the Ba'Hai religion has their main center in Haifa. Visited by many cos of their beautiful gardens and it's one of the main tourist spots in Haifa.

Quite a contrast to what's happening in the PA and other Muslim countries. The Main Stream Media doesn't want you to know these facts for some strange reason but they exist and need to be known and widely spread.

Shalom,

Peter




NY Times Skews the News on Christian Decline in the Mideast


Pope Benedict XVI's journey through Jordan, Israel and the West Bank prompted Ethan Bronner, Jerusalem bureau chief for the New York Times, to report on the declining Christian population across the Middle East. But his May 12 story, "Christians in Mideast Losing Numbers and Influence," misleads on crucial facts about this troubling trend among Palestinian and Israeli Christians. (The article also appeared May 13 in the International Herald Tribune.)

First, while the Christian population is diminishing throughout the Middle East, including the Palestinian areas, the opposite is true in Israel – a key fact Bronner inexplicably ignores.

Second, contrary to Bronner's article, Palestinian Christians are not emigrating simply because of the "economy, economy, economy," but largely as a result of systematic Muslim persecution. Again, Bronner neglects this significant factor directly related to the topic of his story.

The thrust of the Times story is that all societies in the Middle East are inhospitable to Christians, who have little future anywhere in the region. Sadly this is true in the Muslim-dominated nations surrounding Israel but it's not the case in Israel itself.

The Situation Across the Mideast

As Bronner notes, the Christian population throughout the Middle East has been declining for decades. In 1914, Christians constituted 26.4 percent of the total population in what today is Israel, the Palestinian areas, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, while by 2005 they represented at most 9.2 percent (Phillipe Fargues, "The Arab Christians of the Middle East: A Demographic Perspective," in Christian Communities in the Arab Middle East, Andrea Pacini, ed, Oxford University Press, as cited in Justus Reid Weiner's Human Rights of Christians in Palestinian Society, Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs.)

The Ignored Exception

The exception to this regional trend is Israel, where the Christian population has thrived.

As documented in the Central Bureau of Statistics' Statistical Abstract of Israel 2008 (Chart 2.2), in the last dozen years, Israel's Christian population grew from 120,600 in 1995 to 151,600 in 2007, representing a growth rate of 25 percent. In fact, the Christian growth rate has outpaced the Jewish growth in Israel in the last 12 years! In 1995, there were 4,522,300 Jews in Israel, and in 2007 there were 5,478,2000, representing a growth rate of 21 percent – 4 percent less than the Christian population grew during the same time.

Since 1949, when there were 34,000 Christians in Israel, the population has grown 345 percent.

Why does Bronner shy away from pointing out this key information? He does at one point note Israel's exceptionality on a related point, stating:

The Middle East is now, of course, overwhelmingly Muslim. Except for Israel, with its six million Jews, there is no country where Islam does not prevail. This includes Lebanon, where Christians now amount to a quarter of the population, and the non-Arab countries of Iran and Turkey.

The fact that the only growing Christian population in the Middle East exists in the sole country in which Islam does not prevail is essential to understanding the fate of Christianity in that part of the world.

In the second paragraph, Bronner gives an apparently inflated statistic for the declining percentage of Christians in the "Holy Land," which today is generally understood to mean Israel and the Palestinian areas. He writes:

But as Pope Benedict XVI wends his way across the Holy Land this week, he is addressing a dwindling and threatened Christian population driven to emigration by political violence, lack of economic opportunity and the rise of radical Islam. A region that a century ago was 20 percent Christian is about 5 percent today and dropping.

If the "region" that Bronner is referring to is the Holy Land, or Israel and the Palestinian territories, which a century ago was under Turkish control, then 20 percent is too high. According to early census data, drawn from British census figures for 1922 and 1931, the percentage of Christians in Mandate Palestine for those years was 9.6 percent and 8.8 percent respectively. Moreover, going back even earlier, works very sympathetic to the Christian Palestinian position indicate that in 1894 the Christian proportion in what would become Mandate Palestine was just 13.3 percent (Phillipe Fargues, "The Arab Christians of the Middle East: A Demographic Perspective," in Christian Communities in the Arab Middle East, Andrea Pacini, ed, Oxford University Press).

The Palestinian Areas

Bronner correctly reports that consistent with the regional trend, the Palestinian Christian population is drastically declining, but he minimizes a major contributing factor: Muslim persecution of Christians. Thus, he writes:

Among Palestinians, Islam is also playing an unprecedented role in defining identity, especially in Gaza, ruled by Hamas. Benedict's arrival in Jerusalem on Monday prompted a radical member of the legislature in Gaza to call on Arab governments not to greet him because of his contentious remark in 2006 regarding the Prophet Muhammad.

The West Bank Palestinian leadership, more secular, tries to include Christians to ward off separatist sentiments and stop the population decline. It has been a losing battle. In 1948, Jerusalem was one-fifth Christian. Today it is 2 percent.

Rafiq Husseini, the chief of staff of President Mahmoud Abbas's office, said of the exodus of Christians: "It is a very negative thing if it continues to happen. Our task, from the president downwards, is to keep the presence of the Christians alive and well."

In Bethlehem, where the Church of the Nativity marks where Jesus is said to have been born, Christians now make up barely a third of the population after centuries of being 80 percent of it. Emigration is the first option for anyone who has the opportunity, and there are large communities of Christian emigres throughout the West to absorb them.

"Economy, economy, economy," said Fayez Khano, 63, a member of the Assyrian community, explaining the reasons for the continuing exodus while cutting the olive-wood figurines in his family workshop on Manger Street. Mr. Khano's three adult children live in Dublin, and since business is slow he and his wife are about to go to Dublin for six months.

But anti-Christian activity on the part of Palestinian Muslims is not limited to radical politicians speaking out against the Pope. As Muslim Palestinian/Israeli journalist Khaled Abu Toameh wrote a few days ago on the Hudson Web site:

Christian families have long been complaining of intimidation and land theft by Muslims, especially those working for the Palestinian Authority.

Many Christians in Bethlehem and the nearby [Christian] towns of Bet Sahour and Beit Jalla have repeatedly complained that Muslims have been seizing their lands either by force or through forged documents. . . .

Moreover, several Christian women living in these areas have complained about verbal and sexual assaults by Muslim men.

Over the past few years, a number of Christian businessmen told me that they were forced to shut down their businesses because they could no longer afford to pay "protection" money to local Muslim gangs.

While it is true that the Palestinian Authority does not have an official policy of persecution against Christians, it is also true that this authority has not done enough to provide the Christian population with a sense of security and stability.

In addition, Christians continue to complain about discrimination when it comes to employment in the public sector. Since the establishment of the Palestinian Authority 15 years ago, not a single Christian was ever appointed to a senior security post. Although Bethlehem has a Christian mayor, the governor, who is more senior than him, remains a Muslim.

Why doesn't Bronner mention the Muslim theft of Christian lands? The reported involvement of Muslim employees of the Palestinian Authority in the theft of Christian lands contradicts the PA official quoted by Bronner who insists that the population decline is negative and that the authority is determined to stop it. Why does Bronner likewise ignore any other specific examples of Muslim intimidation of Palestinian Christians – sexual harassment, demands for "protection" money, and job discrimination? Why does he make do with the vague, euphemistic statement that "Islam is also playing an unprecedented role in defining identity?" Land dispossession is an unusual way of "defining identity."

You don't have to be a Muslim or Palestinian journalist like Abu Toameh to find information on the Muslim harassment of Christians. Harry de Quetteville reported Sept. 9, 2005 in the Daily Telegraph (London):

Christians in the Holy Land have handed a dossier detailing incidents of violence and intimidation by Muslim extremists to Church leaders in Jerusalem, one of whom said it was time for Christians to "raise our voices" against the sectarian violence.

The dossier includes 93 alleged incidents of abuse by an "Islamic fundamentalist mafia" against Palestinian Christians, who accused the Palestinian Authority of doing nothing to stop the attacks.

The dossier also includes a list of 140 cases of apparent land theft, in which Christians in the West Bank were allegedly forced off their land by gangs backed by corrupt judicial officials. . . .

The alleged attacks on Christians have come despite repeated appeals to the Palestinian Authority to rein in Muslim gangs.

A spokesman for the Apostolic Delegate, the Pope's envoy to Jerusalem, said nothing had been done to tackle the problem. "The Apostolic Delegate presented a list of all the problems to Mr [Yasser] Arafat before he died," he said. "He promised a lot but he did very little."

In the offices of his tiny Christian television station in Bethlehem, Samir Qumsieh said this week that Christian appeals to Mr Arafat's successor as Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, had also gone unheeded.

"At least Arafat responded," he said, "Abbas does not answer our letters."

Like Abbas, the New York Times has been indifferent to the Muslim persecution of Christian Palestinians. Back in 2004, the Times also misreported the major reason for the Christian Palestinian exodus.

Additional Sources:

Seth Frantzman, "Some Truths About Palestinian Christians," Jerusalem Post, May 12, 2009
 
David Rabb, "The Beleaguered Christians of the Palestinian-Controlled Areas, " Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs
 
Justus Reid Weiner, "Human Rights of Christians in Palestinian Society," Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs

 




Peter Fogel
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Peter Fogel

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Re: HSIG - THE STATE OF PALESTINE QUIZ
5/22/2009 3:24:53 AM
Hello Friends,

In the past I've discussed in different threads and in this one the question if there ever
was a Palestinian people or state. For those that follow history and the Bible the answer is evident and obvious there never was a Palestinian people or state/country. Even the name is a Roman invention given to the middle east area that comprises today's Israel, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.

The whole Palestinian issue in actual fact is a non issue but due to the propaganda of the Muslim world and Islam's inherent hatred of the Jewish people became a conflict world renown. At this point in time I believe that even the most active non Islamic supporters (for what ever reason) of "Palestine" are aware of what the Koran says in this regard.

In actual fact Jordan or as it was called during its inception "Trans Jordan" is the true Palestinian state/country but as most know the Jordanian King wants nothing to do with incorporating them into his kingdom even though the Jordanian people are one and the same as those that call themselves Palestinians today.

Regardless of the above for reasons stated in previous posts the majority of Israelis want to resolve this conflict for many reasons but mainly in order to insure that future generations be able to live in peace and harmony.

In any case for those skeptical I invite you to read the below Dry Bones and see how you fare with the questions there.

Shalom,

Peter




This "Palestine Quiz" has been bouncing around the Internet for some time ...it is, of course, a reality-test challenge to anyone who has swallowed the Palestine Myth. I thought it would be fun (and timely) to dress it up as a Dry Bones cartoon.
* * *
If you know someone who actually believes that there was ever a country or state called Palestine, don't argue with them. Just slip 'em a copy of "The Dry Bones State of Palestine Quiz".

-Dry Bones- Israel's Political Comic Strip Since 1973

Peter Fogel
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Geketa Holman

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Re: HSIG - THE STATE OF PALESTINE QUIZ
5/22/2009 9:12:05 AM
Hi Peter,

Can you say "Roman propaganda!" So it seems they have influenced the world at large both in religion and countries borders? I believe they are responsible for much deceit in the world today not only in land disputes but also in religion. Can anyone say,  the council of Niece?
I think the actual act of this is
 called , "political propaganda" they did what suited their agenda and by golly it worked!


Shalom,

Geketa

Hear, O Israel the L-rd our G-d,the L-rd is one http://www.DHGBoutique.com
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Helen Elias

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Re: HSIG - THE STATE OF PALESTINE QUIZ
5/22/2009 3:26:33 PM


This is an very interesting article ......scary, too.  I hope I am not infringing on the copyright.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=539508



The jihadi virus in our jails

Michelle Malkin - Syndicated Columnist - 5/22/2009 8:15:00 AM

Michelle MalkinPresident Obama's speech on homeland security was 6,072 words long. Curiously, he chose not to spare an "a," "and" or "uh" on the New York City terror bust that dominated headlines the morning of his Thursday address. Did the teleprompter run out of room?
 
After a yearlong investigation launched by the Bush administration, the feds cracked down on a ring of murder-minded black Muslim jailhouse converts preparing to bomb two Bronx synagogues and "eager to bring death to Jews." They also planned to attack a New York National Guard air base in Newburgh, NY, where the suspects lived and worshiped at a local mosque.

 

Not one word from the president on the jihadists' intended victims, motives or means.
 
No comfort for the reported targets in the Big Apple, still raw from the Scare Force One rattling that so vainly and recklessly simulated 9/11.
 
No condemnation for the accused plotters.
 
Why? Because doing so would force Obama to abandon his cottony "extremist ideology" euphemisms and confront the concrete truth. To borrow one of our obtuse president's favorite cliches, "let me be perfectly clear" about the reality Obama won't touch: America faces an ongoing Islamic jihad at home and abroad. Not merely "man-caused." But Koran-inspired. Yet, Obama refuses to spell out the centuries-old roots of the war that he claims he'll win faster, better and cleaner than any of his predecessors. 
 
related article buttonMoreover, his push to transfer violent Muslim warmongers into our civilian prisons -- where they have proselytized and plotted with impunity -- will only make the problem worse. A brief refresher course for the left's amnesiacs about the festering jihadi virus in our jails and overseas:

In 2005, Bush administration officials busted a terrorist plot to attack infidels at military and Jewish sites in Los Angeles on the fourth anniversary of 9/11 or the Jewish holy days. It was devised by militant Muslim converts of Jam'iyyat Ul-Islam Is-Saheeh (Arabic for "Assembly of Authentic Islam") who had sworn allegiance to violent jihad at California's New Folsom State Prison.
 
Convicted terror conspirator Jose Padilla converted to Islam during a stint at a Broward County, FL, jail and reportedly fell in with terrorist recruiters after his release. Convicted "shoe bomber" Richard Reid converted to Islam with the help of an extremist imam in a British prison.
 
Aqil Collins, a self-confessed jihadist turned FBI informant, converted to Islam while doing time in a California juvenile detention center. At a terrorist camp in Afghanistan, he went on to train with one of the men accused of kidnapping and beheading Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.
 
In East Texas, inmates were recruited with a half-hour videotape featuring the anti-Semitic rants of California-based Imam Muhammad Abdullah, who claims that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were actually carried out by the Israeli and U.S. governments.
 
Federal corrections officials told congressional investigators during the Bush years "that convicted terrorists from the 1993 World Trade Center bombing were put into their prisons' general population, where they radicalized inmates and told them that terrorism was part of Islam."
 
Despite the insistence of Obama and the Jihadi Welcome Wagon that our civilian prisons are perfectly secure, convicted terrorist aid Lynne Stewart helped jailed 1993 World Trade Center bombing/NY landmark bombing plot mastermind Omar Abdel-Rahman smuggle coded messages of Islamic violence to outside followers in violation of an explicit pledge to abide by her client's court-ordered isolation. 

As I've reported previously, U.S. Bureau of Prison reports have warned for years that our civilian detention facilities are major breeding grounds for Islamic terrorists. There are still not enough legitimately trained and screened Muslim religious leaders to counsel an estimated 9,000 U.S. prison inmates who demand Islamic services. Under the Bush administration, the federal prison bureaucracy had no policy in place to screen out extremist, violence-advocating Islamic chaplains; failed to properly screen the many contractors and volunteers who help provide religious services to Islamic inmates; and shied away from religious profiling.
 
What's Obama's plan to prevent the jihadi virus from spreading? Washing hands and covering mouths won't work for this disease.

 

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