Hi Bill,

Thank you for your response to me and for sharing your story.  You are right, and we all need to look at both sides of the coin.  Your explanation was excellent!

I love DENNIS THE MENACE!  Yes, he is very recognizable in many children and many many adults, unfortunately!

I totally agree with your statement, "Ask a teacher: the main difference between an adult and a child is that a child isn't responsible for his own behavior and an adult is."

It is really frightening when you look back at history and compare it to what is going on today.  The "lack of responsibility for power" factor has played and still plays a huge part in the world from individuals to world leaders. 

Sending love and forgiveness and saying prayers for all of these narcistic people is about all we can do.  A lot of prayers are surely in order!

Bless you,  Jill

Hi Jill

  You brought up a very interesting point with regard to world leaders. Those in a position of power are often times narcissists and BPD'S. The very nature of their jobs results from their inordinant desire to controll those around them. Our president is a perfect example. His illness actually goes a bit beyond that of the typical narcissist. He has a type of illness that is actually spread to those around him because of his ability to conceal his true self. He lures people into believing certain things based soley on his position in life. Then he traps people into a position where they are dependant on him for their very lives. G.W. Bush's mental health has been studied by some of the most prominant psycologists in the world and there can be be little doubt about his illness.

   Here is a link to one such study of Bush and his particular type of disorder.

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html

Hello Everybody

   We have all heard the old cliche " it takes two to tango ". In unhealthy relationships, this couldn't be more true. We all know couples who seem to thrive on misery and chaose in their lives. We all know that one poor woman who just seems to go from one abusive relationship to the next. Well, even though she may find herself repeatedly falling in love with a narcissist, the narcissist may not be the only one with a behaviour disorder. In fact, it is much more likely that she too has a disorder that causes her to seek out abuse. The following article will give you some insight into how all of this works.

Here are the latest updates for billyv5@yahoo.com "SANCTUARY FOR THE ABUSED" - 1 new article Why Do Some People Choose One Bad Relationship Af... Why Do Some People Choose One Bad Relationship After Another? Some people unwittingly choose destructive relationships over and over again. The consequences of their choices are painful and emotionally damaging, yet those that engage in this repetitive behavior never seem to learn from their experience. Instead they go from one bad partner to the next, much to the chagrin of those closest to them (including therapists) who pull their hair out trying to stop them. Why does this happen? Traditional psychoanalytic theory offered an intriguing, yet seemingly unlikely explanation for such self-destructive relationship choices. People who choose such partners must derive pleasure from being mistreated. Simply stated, the choosers are masochistic. If the "pleasure principle" drives people, as analysts argued, certainly this behavior follows the same rules. The therapist's task was to make the unconscious pleasure known to the patient--and then they would be free to choose a more appropriate partner. Yet, in my years of doing therapy, I never found any client who received any pleasure at all, conscious or unconscious, from the abuse and neglect heaped on them by narcissistic or otherwise destructive partners. Rather, my clients were simply hurt over and over again. Still, the "repetition compulsion" was true enough: no sooner had a client ended with one particularly hurtful person then they found another wolf in sheep's clothing. There had to be a good reason. Here's what my clients have taught me over the years. People who have not been given "voice" in childhood have the lifelong task of repairing the "self." This is an endless construction project with major cost overruns (much like the "Big Dig" in Boston). Much of this repair work involves getting people to "hear" and experience them, for only then do they have value, "place," and a sense of importance. However, not just any audience will do. The observer and critic must be important and powerful, or else they will hold no sway in the world. Who are the most important and powerful people to a child? Parents. Who must a person pick as audience to help rebuild the self? People as powerful as parents. Who, typically, is more than willing to play the role of power broker in a relationship, doling out "voice" only insofar as it suits him/her? A narcissist, "voice hog," or otherwise oblivious and neglectful person. And so it goes. The person goes in the relationship with the hope or dream of establishing their place with a narcissistic partner, only to find themselves emotionally battered once again. These are not "oedipal" choices--people are not choosing their father or mother. They are picking people they perceive powerful enough to validate their existence. But why doesn't a person leave when they realize they are in yet another self-destructive relationship? Unfortunately, on occasion things go well with a narcissistic partner--particularly after a blowout fight. A narcissist is often expert in yielding just enough "voice" to keep his or her victim from leaving. They grant a place in their world, if only for a day or two. The wish that this change is permanent sustains the voiceless person until the relationship regresses back to its usual pattern. Giving up a destructive relationship is difficult. The brief moments of validation are cherished, and the person who finally leaves must relinquish the hope of "earning" more. When the person finally breaks free they are faced with an immediate and lasting feeling of emptiness and self-blame that makes them question their decision. "If only I had been different or better--then I would have been valued," is the usual refrain. Once the old relationship is sufficiently grieved, the person immediately resumes their search for another partner/lover with the qualifications and authority to again secure him or her a "place" in the world. Ironically, this "repetition compulsion" is hardly masochistic. Instead, it represents an ongoing attempt to heal the self, albeit one with disastrous results. The cycle repeats itself because the person knows no other way of preventing themselves from feeling tiny or immaterial. This is exactly where therapy comes into play. The analysts were correct in at least one important matter. This repetitive behavior has its roots in childhood, the time in which "voice" and self are established. People are often aware that they are struggling to be heard, to have a sense of agency, and to be valued in a relationship, but they are unaware that this is usually the very same struggle they had with one or both parents. A good therapist reveals this by closely examining their personal history. And so the presenting problem is redefined and broadened to a life issue--and the work begins. A therapist bears down with all the resources available to him or her. Insight is certainly one--for, as suggested above, there is much the client does not know about the depth and breadth of the problem. Just as important is the relationship between therapist and client. Simply put, the relationship must be real, meaningful, and deep. The client must learn to establish voice, and it must be appreciated by the therapist in a genuine way. For the therapy to be effective, the relationship will likely be different from every other one the client has had. Advice and encouragement, often seen as hallmarks of good therapy, are by themselves insufficient. To make headway, the therapist must partially fill the same void that the client was unconsciously hoping their lover would. The client must feel: "My therapist is someone who hears me, values me, gives me a 'place' where I feel real and significant." Once the client feels certain of this, they can begin looking for partners using more realistic, adult criteria. And they can finally free themselves from people who chronically hurt them. In this way, the self-destructive, repetitive cycle is broken. ORIGINAL • Email to a friend • Search •                            May a smile follow you to sleep each night,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,            and be there waiting,,, when you awaken.   Sincerly, Bill Vanderbilt   Mental Health And Political Forums Respectively http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/8212/ShowForum.aspx http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/9637/ShowForum.aspx   Visit the Billallys Pub network at:  http://pub-network.ryze.com The following link is to a program that has been highly recommended to me by people that I know and trust. I have been unable to find anything negative about this company. http://billyv.veretekk.com/

Hello Everybody

 Well, I can see that this forum has dropped out of sight pretty much, like most non business forums do these days but, for the sake of those who may be trying to help someone they care about, here is a good way to go about it. If someone you know is being abused, there are some things you can do. You must be very careful how you go about these things but, you really can help.

Here are the latest updates for billyv5@yahoo.com "SANCTUARY FOR THE ABUSED" - 1 new article How To Help Someone That Is Being Abused When som... How To Help Someone That Is Being Abused When someone that you know and care about is being battered by their partner or spouse it can leave you feeling frightened, frustrated, sad, and helpless. It is often difficult to understand why your friend may not be willing to leave their partner, but there are some things you can do to help your friend. You Can Be supportive, not judgmental She may have hidden the abuse for a long time because of shame, fear, religious beliefs, love, or hope that things would change. Listen to her if she wants to talk. It may be difficult for you to hear but she needs to be able to tell someone that will believe her. Do not blame her for the violence, put her down or ridicule her for not leaving The violence is not her fault. Her abuser is responsible for his actions. He will do anything in his struggle for power and control. There are many barriers to leaving that she may be facing. She may have stayed because of financial reasons, fear that he wont let her go (an abuser often will threaten to kill her if she leaves), or fear for the safety of the children (he may even threaten to harm or kill the children). Offer her your understanding. Tell her about community resources She may not know what help is available. You can tell her about The Lighthouse and ask her to call. Tell her the staff at The Lighthouse can help her in many ways, including safe shelter, counseling, court advocacy and help understanding legal issues. Let her know that she is not alone. Victims are often isolated from family and friends by their abuser. Let her know that you care and don't give up on her even if she hasn't decided to leave him. There are many barriers to leaving that she may be facing. Help her discover her options Because of the abusers control and her isolation she may not feel that help is available to her. She may have lost hope of getting out of her situation, lost her self- esteem, and forgotten her strengths. Remind of her strengths, talents, and skills. Help her gain information about her options. Talk to her about planning for her safety and the safety of her children Remember, do not talk to her in the presence of her abuser about her options or safety issues and help her to make sure that he will not find any of the information. • Email to a friend • Search •                            May a smile follow you to sleep each night,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,            and be there waiting,,, when you awaken.   Sincerly, Bill Vanderbilt   Mental Health And Political Forums Respectively http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/8212/ShowForum.aspx http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/9637/ShowForum.aspx   Visit the Billallys Pub network at:  http://pub-network.ryze.com The following link is to a program that has been highly recommended to me by people that I know and trust. I have been unable to find anything negative about this company. http://billyv.veretekk.com/

Hi Bill,

This is excellent information, and the picture is definitely worth a Thousand words!  Sometimes visualization is the key to people seeing themself moving toward a new goal.       

I think the one statement pretty much says it all,  "Be supportive, not judgmental"    I know for many years I used to be judgemental in situations of abuse because I could not understand why a person would tolerate such a thing!  Why not just get out of the relationship and move on?

All I can say is I learned with a few close friends over the years, that  is much easier said than done.  This is scary stuff!

What is most important is just to listen and to be a friend.  Hopefully, that person will hear themself say........"It's time to move on to a new way of life."  You can never change a person, but you can help them discover that it may be their idea just by listening and being a friend.

My heart goes out to those that are victims of abuse, and there is far too much of it.

Thanks for all you do!  This forum is important, and even though people do not always respond, you have no idea who is reading this and whose life you may have changed  :-)

Bless you and keep up the great work,  Jill