Hi Cheri, Thanks for making that informative post. I wanted your input on the real estate question as I know that you are a specialist in that area. Interesting, isn't it, that the prices in Utah are so close to what they are here in Western Australia? We, too, have had pretty explosive price increases of late. Therein lies something interesting in itself. If you had property you went along for the wealth ride. If you didn't you just got further behind. Here is something else interesting too... from Cheri... ================= "That misquote was what I was taught, and it took my entire lifetime up until the past year or two to get over to some extent the negative image associated with being aquisitive of anything, even the basic necessities." ================= Yes - what you were taught. From who? Mostly our parents, I think. A whole generation was brainwashed with it - from the Great Depression of the 30's through the war and into the early 60's. So, who spreads this junk as truth? I wonder... ... could it be those who want it all for themselves? In other words, hypnotize and convince the masses that having money is evil and they will therefore repel it thereby making it easier for the big "money men" to keep it all for themselves. As I have always said: "A poor population is a controllable population." So, who wants the control? Gary

Hi Winston and Cheri, I think I need perhaps to clarify my earlier post in answer to your questions. ============================================================== --------------------------------------------- First of all, to recognize Jesus Christ, one must accept the existance of the devil, as to deny the devil would be to deny the words of Jesus Christ, thereby negating his statement that he is the "way, the truth and the life," thereby denying him. --------------------------------------------- I don't know if that is quite correct. Do not orthodox jews (I hope I have that right) and muslims deny the existence of the Devil in their religion? =============================================================== In referring to Jesus Christ, I am referring to him as he described himself. While orthodox Jews and Muslims recognize him as a religious figure, they do NOT recognize the claims he made about himself, nor the claims made about him by others, namely, that he is divine in origin, died a criminal's death to pay the price for the shortcomings of mankind, and rose bodily from the dead after three days, was seen by many after that time, and ascended to heaven in his resurrected body to be the eternal Saviour of mankind. Cheri, neither Orthodox Jews nor Muslims believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. They emphatically deny his divinity, that he died for others, and that he rose from the dead. However, both Orthodox Jews and Muslims DO believe in the existence of the devil or devils. So, Winston, in answer to your point, it depends on what it means to you to recognize someone. If it means to believe they are who they say they are, then to recognize Jesus Christ also means to accept the existence of the devil. However, if it means simply to accept that a certain person did exist in history, then, no, it doesn't make it necessary to believe in the existence of the devil. God bless, Dave

Hi Gary, I'm glad you expanded on this thought: ==================== "To quote one of the most misquoted passages from the Bible, "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil." 1Ti 6:10 This can be expanded to apply to all material things that could be bought with money (money, itself, is simply a tool)." ==================== It is a fact that you have very eloquently expounded upon that the way money is used is what matters, not the money itself. The bigger the tool (the greater the wealth), the more good or harm can be done with it. I'm not a gun-totin' fanatic, but I had to laugh when someone answered the claim that guns kill people with "Guns don't kill people - people kill people with guns." Once again, the false claim was being made that a tool was evil. It is a sad fact that so many people accept so-called quotes from many sources that are warped, twisted and misused without ever checking them out. (another one that comes to mind is, "God helps those who help themselves." - show me where that is in the Bible!) Over the centuries, misquoted scripture and other things quoted as facts have done much harm, often being used to keep people under control, while increasing the status, power or wealth of the one doing the twisting. One of the things I've told my children and others many, many times is, question everything! Never accept a "because I say so" or "because so-and-so says so" as an answer. Check it out, dig deep and search for the truth. The truth is something that will stand up to the toughest questions because it's the unmoveable foundation at the bottom of the pile. I teach a class every week, and have often told my students never to just take my word for it, but to check what I say and tell me when they think I'm wrong. I need to keep learning, too. God bless, Dave

---------------------------------------------- However, both Orthodox Jews and Muslims DO believe in the existence of the devil or devils. ---------------------------------------------- Thank you Dave, you are quite correct. I had done some further checking this morning (the old memory isn't what it used to be! lol) and was about to correct my post. It is actually in Hinduism where they don't believe in a devil: In contrast to the Christian traditions and Islam, Hinduism does not recognize any central evil force or entity such as the Devil opposing God but does recognize that different beings (e.g., asuras) and entities can perform evil acts and cause suffering in the world

Winston, This doesn't belong here, but I couldn't resist. In answer to your signature question: a polygon. Cheri