I've heard it only takes a tablespoon of water to drown a person, and if someone is completely "out of it" they may not wake up. It's easy to fall asleep and drift away, probably especially while under the influence of substances. It only takes a few minutes of lack of oxygen to cause permanent brain damage or death.

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Hello Myrna, Helen, Robert, all.

We have spoken about Whitney Houston in these threads that her death from drowning in the bathtub after taking prescription drugs.

I had wondered how anyone can drown by falling asleep and slipping down as I thought that one would automatically wake up..Why was Whitney taking so many prescription pills?? I thought she had got her life back on track, she was staying in the Hilton Hotel to attend a pre-Grammy party that night and the Grammy's the next night.... The Party went on and was not canceled out of respect when it was learned she had died, it seemed to actually whoop up more in glorification.. questions, questions!

So these two video's came across my morning reading today and I also wanted to find out what the bible says too, to give you a fuller picture why I think there is merit in and why I believe we are in a spiritual war the Lord Jesus Christ and His bride (us) and Satan, god of this world.

Genesis 6 (King James Version)

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Matthew 24

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Hi Myrna,

The words in the prayer are..."Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

The word "trespass" implies that people are deliberate in their actions, not doing things as a mistake, but on purpose, they know they are treading across something that isn't theirs to walk over, either other peoples feelings, or being physically hurtful to other people or themselves.

So to forgive, truly forgive, we need to recognize that deliberateness for what it is, and be truly willing to let it go, and that is very difficult. You're right about forgiveness needing to be a full feeling from the heart, because trespasses are deliberate, done with knowledge of wrongdoing, not mistakes.

I think the wrath of God is based in His protectiveness of us, as His children, as a parent feels wrath toward anyone who threatens their children. God may feel wrath toward some people because they threaten His other children or threaten themselves with bad behavior. Therefore, His wrath could be based in love, protectiveness, anger toward anyone who's destructive toward other people or themselves.