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Bogdan Fiedur

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/11/2010 6:20:53 PM

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I waited a few days to see whether anyone would bother to join in the three way discussion here. This thread seems to be getting many views and we've seen a few patriotic threads starting in the community in order to show how much people love their country but when it comes down to brass tacks and nitty gritty none are willing to get involved in the discussion here but watch from the side and either get pissed off with some of the things they're reading here or agree with one side but haven't got the guts or knowledge to get involved. I'd be so bold as to say it's a lack of guts but that's just my opinion.


You know the saying. "Give a men a fish and you feed them for one day, teach them how to fish and you feed them for life." The problem is people don't wan to learn how to fish, they want the fish. This is why elite can exist. They offer the fish, and it is very stinky.


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Before I start my reply let me first acknowledge that I watched all the videos and many more since then. The Venus Project is not a solution to get rid of what you call the "corrupt elite" but a different way to live in this world after some catastrophic event or events that will bring about the destruction of the world as we know it today. So in essence the answer to my question is not the non mainstream solution but a catalyst that might happen and bring about this new order called the Venus Project.



It takes time for any idea to be acceptable. Even today Venus Project for majority of people is the utopia. The catastrophic event is near the corner. We are already in depression, (artificially diluted by the elite), we are at the end of technological revolution where half of the jobs are taken by machines and more to be taken away, the remaining ones exported to China and India, the known monopolized energy resources are getting scarce and we have military power of the world which, military potential is larger than the rest of the world combined. These are ingredients needed for revolution to begin.

As soon as unemployment reaches levels not controllable by tricks (creating government jobs, and skewing the statistics) and lack of abilities to provide sustainable economy, revolution will start rolling. In fact already is. This discussion is the proof.

I give you two example from Polish history.

1. The Teutonic knights were invited to Poland at some point to help to deal with enemy. Once the Teutonic knights settled they decided to fight with Poland. For 400 years Polish kings were trying to defeat the Knights and they couldn't. The Knights dissolved themselves when they got introduced to Lutheran version of Christianity.

2. Poland was under German, Austrian and Russian occupation for 150 years. During this years various insurgencies were organized, but always defeated by occupants. The identity hasn't been defeated during this 150 years. When first World War ended and Russians, Austrians and Germen were all dysfunctional, Poland came back. There was preparation for this needed though and nation had to be ready to take control when opportunity has arisen.


The same is with the Venus project. People need to be made aware of this. When time comes (which will be soon) it will be ready to take over.


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Without a doubt Jacque Fresco is a genius and draws beautiful pictures. He formulated a plan that is Utopia and sounds ever so beautiful but the most important question; is it doable remains as it's main obstacle. Is it realistic or even logical is even more important. After watching the Z Addendum and the interview with Jacque I had more questions then he was able to convincingly answer either during the interview or on the VP website or in the FAQ you'll find there.


The questions will remain.
The study has been started and people keep asking questions. There were social experiments done with communism, socialism, fascism and so on.
Jacque's idea is very innovative above any of the existing systems, which were only fractional improvements from the previous ones.
They all relied on currency and elite. In fact they were just disguised ways in which elite could keep the control on the uneducated or disadvantaged masses.

Today there is large group of population which is educated enough to see what elite is doing and of course would like to join the elite.
Elite doesn't need as many people anymore as the computers can replace them. They are thinking of ways how to decrease amount of population, but the non-elite educated group can see this, and doesn't like this idea.

So what is the solution, the solution is to find a way so elite and non-elite group can still function as one in much more efficient way, which Venus project shows it is possible.


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When you start peeling the layers away you discover that you're replacing one "elite" system with another. It has its very strong similarities to communism where all were equal and supposedly got an equal share of all the wealth or resources but we know that never happened.

In the resource based economy there is no money and you're able to get what ever you want free of charge? According to what parameters and who decides? At first the answer was the technicians and then the computers and then groups .......... in other words committees and a new form of elite that will decide for you. In order to be part of the system you have to agree to the terms of the Venus Project other wise you're not in the system. Agreeing to the terms entails giving up freedoms to abide by the new system that he is advocating.




It is possible to design a mechanism which can function for the sake of society survival and virtually take away tasks from life which today politicians=mafia is handling.
Look at your body. Who is the elite in there. Are you? I'm sure you don't decide how your blood flows and what your body needs to do when you don't have enough food.
Definitely you are not participating knowingly in breathing, fighting viruses and growing.

Those are the tasks which are million times more complicated than any decisions politicians makes during their time.
Computers can be way more precise and exact when it comes to deciding what is the more advantages situation for human or environmental survival than some politician who can't even run a hot dog stand.
Politicians are lawyers mostly whose role is merely to balance on the edges of legality or exploit loopholes in the law. They are not to solve anything or create anything useful. This is great illusion.



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I see it as a system promoting and advocating a world wide commune and as nice as the potential life that is described within this commune history has shown that with all the best of intentions the commune system never worked and in reality was a massive failure and became a drain on the economies of the countries involved.



This is false.
There was never real communes as the surrounding world always was non-commune kind and was affecting the live of the commune.

The non-commune systems had always advantage as being part of establishment and could destroy commune life by isolating it, dragging it into conflicts, using finances to corrupt people inside communes and so on.
Look at China, today. As soon as the world's elite decide to use it for its advantage, it made it work and in fact it owns most of American debts. It will take more jobs away from America soon, forcing it either to go to war with entire world or allow on social revolution which we are here talking about.



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China is the best example of them all. Their economy started taking off only when they embraced the tenets of Capitalism and utilized them to their advantage within their still strict communistic country.




They didn't embrace anything, Nobody made them this offer before. They were enemies. They are still a communist system today with its elite and with its bases.



Quote:

Like an onion when you start peeling away the layers in the end you end up with not much and in the case of the Venus Project and it's resource based economy as enticing as it seems and looks at first glance the bottom line is that it's not doable in my humble opinion.



The communism was an attempt to change the status quo. The problem with communism was that all it did, replaced one elite with another. You can't build a system by implementing only some of its ideas. This is like building a human who knows how to breath but doesn't know how to utilize the oxygen.

As I explained above, you can create a system like our bodies and give it ability to give you feedback when things go wrong, like pain, discomfort, lack of oxygen, hunger.
You won't need politicians to tell you that you are hungry and you want them to make decisions in regards to it, the system will know what is best solution to solve your hunger problem and will also know how to get there without destroying you and your environment.

You might be not realizing, but when I'm typing this words, there are millions of computers making sure that what I'm typing will be communicated to you, in your part of the world, within seconds. No politician could do it and this is done by computers and computer program which merely require that some human checks it once a while if there is no errors.

The commercial planes are virtually flown by auto-pilots and so on. This is much harder than some clerk filling out a questionnaire in some office. All this can be computerized, if interest groups are taken away.

So what, that there would be some people who wouldn't want to work.
They wouldn't need to. Even today 90% of our efforts is duplication of efforts and stuffing pockets of elite.

Bogdan Fiedur

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Peter Fogel

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/11/2010 9:20:26 PM
Hello Friends,

Attorney General E Holder made the ridiculous decision to try KSM and his 4 Al Qaeda partners in crime in a civilian court rather then in a military tribunal.

Over 68,000 Americans signed the petition requesting that Holder reverse his decision and try them in a military tribunal as they should have been to begin with.

Please join us and add your name to the petition.

Shalom,

Peter







The Hon. Eric Holder
Attorney General of the United States
Washington, DC

Dear Mr. Holder:

We, the editors of HUMAN EVENTS,RedState.com,and the many Americans who have attached our names tothis petitionhereby request that you try al-Qaeda's confessed 9/11terroristmastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his four al-Qaedacohorts in amilitary tribunal, reversing your precedent-changingdecision to trythem in a civilian court in New York City.

There is noreason, much less a requirement, under U.S. Constitutionalor statutorylaw to grant KSM and the others the right to a trial incivilian courts,nor to offer them any of the correspondingConstitutional rightsafforded U.S. citizens. Logic, reason, andjustice demand that theterrorists who planned the 9/11 attacks betreated as enemy combatantsin a war against the United States, not ascommon civilian criminals.

Our reasons for urging you to reverse your decision include:

1.Trying these terrorists in a civilian court would be a break with200+years of American jurisprudence. From British spies during theWar ofIndependence to Nazi saboteurs caught on U.S. soil during WorldWar II,we have tried those who make war against America in military,notcivilian, courts. This change in policy sets a potentiallycatastrophicprecedent. This would not happen with a military tribunal;

2.The very real possibility exists that if tried in a civiliancourt, KSMand the others could be acquitted on a technicality, such astheir nothaving been informed of their Miranda rights, or having beendenied aspeedy trial. This would not happen with a military tribunal;

3.KSM and the others should not be allowed to hijack our courts,usingthem as a media circus to promulgate their hate-filled, extremistviews.This would not happen with a military tribunal;

4. Acivilian trial would send the dangerous message to our enemiesthat theUnited States has reverted to its ineffective, pre-9/11crime-fightingapproach to terrorism. This would not happen with a military tribunal;

5.In a civilian trial, valuable intelligence aboutinterrogationtechniques and other classified information will berevealed toAmerica's enemies, giving them a huge advantage insuccessfullycarrying out terrorist plots in the future. This would not happen with a military tribunal;

6.Americans are willing to pay to ensure justice is served. However, theestimated security cost of $200 million for the KSM trialis completelyavoidable and a total waste of taxpayer money. This would not happen with a military tribunal; and

7.While Americans are willing and able to stand up to protectthemselvesand their property, trying KSM and the others in New Yorkinvites aterrorist attack, creating a huge, unnecessary risk to ourcourtworkers, jurors, and everyone in the New York City area. This would not happen with a military tribunal;

Ourfinal words are from David Beamer, father of Todd Beamer, one oftheheroes of United Flight 93: "Our enemies must be thrilled" hewrote ofyour decision to give KSM and the others a civilian trial inManhattan."We are willingly handing them an opportunity to inflicteconomic harmon New York City, keep their cause in the headlines,gather newintelligence, create new terror strategies, stimulaterecruiting,celebrate new found rights, and foist a fresh round of painandsuffering upon their victims."

Mr. Holder, asAttorneyGeneral of the United States, it was within your power to movethetrial of KSM from a military tribunal to a civilian court. Itisequally within your power to reverse that dangerous decision.Werequest that you do so forthwith.

Respectfully submitted,

The Editors of HUMAN EVENTS and RedState.com

Petition signers include the following leaders
Former Virginia Governor George Allen
Congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.)
Columnist and author Ann Coulter
Congressman John Fleming (R - La.)
Publisher Steve Forbes
Former Congressman Vito Fossella (R.-N.Y.)
Congressman Trent Franks (R.-Ariz)
Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich
Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee
Congressman Jim Jordan (R.-Ohio)
Congressman Pete King (R.-N.Y.)
Former Congressman Rick Lazio (R.-N.Y.)
Radio talk show host and author Mark Levin
NY State Conservative Party Chairman Mike Long
Columnist and author Michelle Malkin
Actor and author Chuck Norris
Former New York Governor George Pataki
Congressman Tom Price (R.-Ga)
Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney
Congressman Aaron Schock (R.-Ill)
Congressman John Shadegg (R.-Ariz)
Congressmen John Shimkus (R.-Ill)
Congressman Todd Tiahrt (R.-Kan)



Peter Fogel
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Jim Allen

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/11/2010 11:11:41 PM

Education is the Beginning

John Adams, in the Defense of the Constitutions (1787), argues for the importance of patriotic education by writing that students and citizens “should be educated and instructed in the principles of freedom.” A principal means of securing the “blessings of liberty” that the Constitution describes is by educating rising generations about these precious birth rights. In a democratic republic, the primary purpose of education is to cultivate civic and moral literacy among its citizens. We hope your understanding of the American Revolution and its legacy is furthered as you explore this site. To support this, you will find a searchable database and links to other historical and cultural organizations. http://americanrevolutioncenter.org/content/education

American Revolution Center releases first national survey on knowledge of the American Revolution


National Survey The American Revolution Center commissioned the first national survey to assess adult knowledge of the American Revolution. The results show that an alarming 83 percent of Americans failed a basic test on knowledge of the American Revolution and the principles that have united all Americans. Results also revealed that 90 percent of Americans think that knowledge of the American Revolution and its principles is very important, and that 89 percent of Americans expected to pass a test on basic knowledge of the American Revolution, but scored an average of 44 percent. The survey questions addressed issues related to the Revolutionary documents, people, and events, and also asked attitudinal questions about the respondents’ perception of the importance of understanding the Revolutionary history and the institutions that were established to preserve our freedoms and liberties. The survey results highlight the importance of, interest in, and lack of understanding of our Founding. For a printable PDF copy of the survey report, click here.

View the Survey

http://americanrevolutioncenter.org/node/89



May Wisdom and the knowledge you gained go with you,



Jim Allen III
Skype: JAllen3D
Everything You Need For Online Success


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Bogdan Fiedur

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/12/2010 4:41:01 AM
Quote:

Education is the Beginning

John Adams, in the Defense of the Constitutions (1787), argues for the importance of patriotic education by writing that students and citizens “should be educated and instructed in the principles of freedom.” A principal means of securing the “blessings of liberty” that the Constitution describes is by educating rising generations about these precious birth rights. In a democratic republic, the primary purpose of education is to cultivate civic and moral literacy among its citizens. We hope your understanding of the American Revolution and its legacy is furthered as you explore this site. To support this, you will find a searchable database and links to other historical and cultural organizations. http://americanrevolutioncenter.org/content/education

American Revolution Center releases first national survey on knowledge of the American Revolution


National Survey The American Revolution Center commissioned the first national survey to assess adult knowledge of the American Revolution. The results show that an alarming 83 percent of Americans failed a basic test on knowledge of the American Revolution and the principles that have united all Americans. Results also revealed that 90 percent of Americans think that knowledge of the American Revolution and its principles is very important, and that 89 percent of Americans expected to pass a test on basic knowledge of the American Revolution, but scored an average of 44 percent. The survey questions addressed issues related to the Revolutionary documents, people, and events, and also asked attitudinal questions about the respondents’ perception of the importance of understanding the Revolutionary history and the institutions that were established to preserve our freedoms and liberties. The survey results highlight the importance of, interest in, and lack of understanding of our Founding. For a printable PDF copy of the survey report, click here.

View the Survey

http://americanrevolutioncenter.org/node/89





This proves that no matter who you vote for it is not because you understand why you vote for them but because you just feel like it. You like the person, because you have seen them enough times on TV and in newspapers. They are simply recommended by elite.

This here is the paragraph from Zeitgeistmovement website.

Democracy in today’s world is an illusion. It always was. People think they have “choice” in our current system because they can press a button on a voting machine and put some pre-selected person into power. Once that person is in power, the public then has no power. Did you vote for the space program? Did you vote for the cabinet of the new president? Did you vote for the tax cut? Did you vote for where highways or power grids go? Did you vote for the war in Iraq? No, you didn’t.
The traditional concept of a “participatory democracy” is a cruel joke. The game has been used to give the public the illusion of control for countless generations, while the distorted monetary powers at the top continue to do whatever they please. There never was a true democracy in any country in history and there never will be as long as the monetary system is in operation and scarcity is perpetuated.
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Bogdan Fiedur

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/12/2010 5:44:14 AM
Further to my thoughts about the Venus Projects and implications of having it or not are as follows. I'm using ideas from the zeitgeist movement website and some of the notes from there.

If you don't implement it, the elite will do all they can to decrease amount of population and utilize automation to control the world and employ it to control your every step of the way so you are a good citizen and only behave the way they want you to.

If you implement it (meaning you make yourself part of the design team), you will ensure that it is organized in such a way that it doesn't allow any of the above. Meaning no wars, no duplication of efforts, working only if you believe you can contribute to common good, have anything world has to offer and concentrate your effort on educating yourself in any area which promotes harmony and sustainability and your personal fulfillment. Never do the useless job anymore and never learn at school what doesn't interest you. Teacher at school might be an 15 year old to 12 year old who knows the material better and develops himself by being involved in creative process of teaching. The student doesn't study just one idea in narrow area but studies anything he/she likes and chooses some specialization based on interests and current scientific development. No more boring lessons and bad teachers.

Today computers could replace 80% of workforce if this wouldn't be for the interests groups who want to receive income tax and other benefits from people having money and spending them.

In the words of Dr. Norbert Wiener, noted “Father of Cybernation”:
”It is a degradation to human beings to chain them to an oar and use them as a source of power, but it is almost an equal degradation to assign them to purely repetitive tasks in a factory which demands less than a millionth of their brain power."

No more depression for reasons of not having money or not being able to afford mortgage or payment. No more police and jails as there won't be anything you can take from someone and sell for profit or take advantage of.

You might say "No government" who will represent us and how will we make decisions.

In a Resource-Based Economy, people do not make decisions; they arrive at them through the use of advanced technological tools that incorporate The Scientific Method. Everything can be brought to the technical level. We are physical structures as well a as world around us and we are subjects to physical laws. There is no ‘Republican’ or ‘Liberal’ way to design an airplane.

There won't be patent offices and all discoveries will be in public domain. Anyone will be able to use existing level of technology to further develop new inventions.

There won't be advertising, stockbrokers and insurance agents. None of this will be needed anymore.

You might ask, why anyone would like to work in society where there is no need to work.

In a 1992 Gallop Poll, more than 50% of American adults (94 Million Americans) volunteered time for social causes, at an average of 4.2 hours a week, for a total of 20.5 billion hours a year!60 This is an incredible triumph for the collective human spirit, for even with the sickness of self-interest generated by the monetary system, humans still strive to help each other and
give to society without reward.

This proves that people still work even if they are not paid for.

Note that removing money from the equation, removes many professions and services from existence. This means, less energy use, less use of transportation, less need for offices, less resources needed and people can concentrate more on their personal lives as well on things which have contribution to society as a whole. Ask yourself what is the conribution to society of laywer, stock broker or banker?

There would be no need to stockpile goods and use them only occasionally. You could get for your use the best devices available during current development stage and let them for use to others, when you don't need them.

Bogdan Fiedur

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