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Jim Allen

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/9/2010 4:09:41 PM
Quote:
As I have said Bogdan,

I am not uneducated, just well informed.

Stay Tuned to PJTV for the full Interviews. Today Bill Whittle talksabout interviewing a former FBI special agent in Washington, D.C. whoasserts that the Muslim Brotherhood, a terrorist body, is directly tiedto U.S. anti-terror policies. Watch & comment on Trifectahere: http://pjtv.com/v/2920



Dropping Like Flies: Democrats Are Fleeing DC
Jan 6 / Trifecta

Three big-name democrats call it quits in 24-hours. Is this thebeginning of a Republican revolution in 2010? Watch & commenthere: http://pjtv.com/v/2918

May Wisdom and the knowledge you gained go with you,



Jim Allen III
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Bogdan Fiedur

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/9/2010 6:44:17 PM
Hello Jim,

Your links require membership for the site and they don't open.

Let me give you the reasons why you are seeing me here in the first place.
When you have started your discussion I could have told you this what I will be telling you now, but you would not listen.

I had to go to the great lengths to show you that the glorified system of democracy and republic, hasn't done anything different to the world than previous feudal system, monarchies, fascists and communists. In fact because of being connected to the early money cartels, allowed itself to be corrupted very early and keeps corrupting entire world and is based on lies. I had to push some of the hot buttons first to get you involved in the discussion. I'm glad that you are the member of this community.

Communism is not worse or better from what we call today's democracy because, democracy is just a disguised way of controlling the society by small group of elite under illusion that society is making the decisions.

The fact that you have been presented by your leaders with notion that communism was something bad is because the communism was rising to the power and was threatening the status quo. If Soviet Union recognized earlier that being part of financial cartels is the most important thing in controlling the world, they would join existing money scam as opposed to creating their own. If SU was part of the established money system they would be winning the war between West and East as they would be able to pay for anything. And we know for the fact that several American companies were lured to work for them. e.g Ford. And we know that financial elite is interested in communism in first place as there you have the centralized government which in totalitarian fashion controls the society.

The best example for the fallacy of the thesis that democratic system is creating free enterprises and free society is today's China. Not only China owns majority of today's American debt, it has acquired its entire technology with exception of few areas, its totalitarian regime is being relaxed wheres in America the opposite is happening. Taking of liberties away, loss of the exportable capacity and total loss of trust by society and corruption of the government to its roots. In communism government is expected to be corrupted, which helps in identifying the enemy, in democratic system, the large group of population spends their energy on fighting who is right.

According to early adopters of the US constitution, America should become free society, with no social boarders, with respect for all minorities and so on.

As we know all this is false, if anything appeared as such was due to the fact as I have explained previously due to the American connection with UK imperialistic and colonial advantage and to the fact that US dollar has been reserve currency due to FR conspiracy.
Americans either could purchase any goods or loyalty in the world for paper money or had international bankers using their ponzi schemes to destroy competition either through wars or takeovers.

All I'm trying to say is that your system is broken. In fact it was only meant to serve financial elite from the beginning. As soon as new financial opportunities appeared (e.g China potential), your leaders didn't care anymore that they are cooperating with their enemy communists anymore. That in China there is no liberties and people are being executed for thinking wrong ways. They didn't care that their own people will be in trouble, because they were not their own people in first place at all. They were just numbers like in monarchies and feudal system previously where all it mattered was how many heads were in the household and how many villiges where in the district and how much they were supposed to produce so their contribution was enough to keep them alive and busy enough so they stay stupid and uneducated. With all the advances with technology this should be different today in America which has one of the highest standards of living. And what we know that the lowest class 70% of population has no time left whatsoever for anything but work, that large group of population lives under poverty line and over 5% of population is locked up in jails (the highest in the world, the re-offending rate is 70%). The highest suicide rate is amongst the war veterans and the largest group of homeless people in America are its war veterans.

If I had told you this at the beginning of our discussion, you would say that this is not relevant.

I have shown you that it was.

You can make yourself busy with analyzing if your government or politicians are going to do the right thing, but I will tell you that no matter what they do, Americans will be (already are) looking for jobs in China and India over the next couple of decades (if things go the old way), that American progress is going to be slower than the progress in developing world as no war in the Middle East will stop people from acquiring different sources of energy. All the soldiers in America can't block the sun, can't stop the waves in the sea and can't stop the wind or raise price on any of this. The monopoly of banking cartels will end with the advent of ability of non-elite world to utilize other technologies and sources of energies. Middle class today is as smart as the top 2%.

What I see for America and of course Canada is that instead of trying to suppress other nation and use colonial ideas, deception and lies, and false promises, they work on bridging the gaps between societies.
That they educate people all over the world how to build and live in peace as opposed to spending majority of their GDP on military buildup, jails, police, intelligence, litigation, duplication of efforts, government, taxation administration, fake charity organizations, lobbying, destroy environment, pay millions to actors, musicians and sport people, fake health system, fake drugs and list could go on.

All those efforts are big part of our lives. We spend majority of our GDP on noise.

The technology if not blocked by interests groups, could allow that 5% of worlds population effort would be enough, to feed, house and dress everybody in the world.

Consider this. Use your energy where it actually can be useful or what you are doing will never end, in fact it will get worse, we are at the doors of dark age.

It is up to you to turn it around.
There is a chance to use human potential. Supposedly we only use 2% of our abilities. Einstein used only 10%.


Bogdan Fiedur

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/11/2010 6:08:11 AM
You have no rights


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Peter Fogel

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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/11/2010 10:07:44 AM
Hi Bogdan,

I waited a few days to see whether anyone would bother to join in the three way discussion here. This thread seems to be getting many views and we've seen a few patriotic threads starting in the community in order to show how much people love their country but when it comes down to brass tacks and nitty gritty none are willing to get involved in the discussion here but watch from the side and either get pissed off with some of the things they're reading here or agree with one side but haven't got the guts or knowledge to get involved. I'd be so bold as to say it's a lack of guts but that's just my opinion.

Quote:
Quote:

One question Bogdan. I've been reading your links and watching the videos you recommended and aside from the many conspiracies and "hints"of solutions I've yet to read or listen to a plan of how to defeat all these bogey men.

Up till now according to your theories America seems to be the root of all evil and you also say
Quote:
There is time coming for societies to embrace next ideas and get rid of the corrupt elite. I hope US will take the lead, because there is the biggest corruption and has to be taken out first.
Let's assume for a moment that all your conspiracy theories are correct the question remains ; what is the plan? How do we go about getting rid of the "corrupt elite"?


The ideas to solve the problems are not what you would consider a mainstream. They are from the higher level of consciousness and they will be taken by most as a cute ideas, at least after they hear them for the first time. This is what I did.

I believe you have heard about them but knowing your position so far I would not see you as someone who advocates it or believes as your world of values is world which consist of bad and good people where good people have to destroy bad people. (possibly the other way around)

The higher level of thinking is to create conditions which don't give a person reason to be bad and which create conditions in which person strives to be the best.

The first approach to it is to remove the money from our life and make all the resources common goods.

The project I want you to refer to is called http://www.thevenusproject.com/ and my heart is already there. The 93 year old man

Jacque Fresco

who I consider a genius, presents it here for 100 minutes. If you are new to it, watch it all before you start making your judgments.



I asked the question how do we go about getting rid of the "corrupt elite" and you answered with
Quote:
The ideas to solve the problems are not what you would consider a mainstream. They are from the higher level of consciousness and they will be taken by most as a cute ideas, at least after they hear them for the first time. This is what I did.
Before I start my reply let me first acknowledge that I watched all the videos and many more since then. The Venus Project is not a solution to get rid of what you call the "corrupt elite" but a different way to live in this world after some catastrophic event or events that will bring about the destruction of the world as we know it today. So in essence the answer to my question is not the non mainstream solution but a catalyst that might happen and bring about this new order called the Venus Project.

Without a doubt Jacque Fresco is a genius and draws beautiful pictures. He formulated a plan that is Utopia and sounds ever so beautiful but the most important question; is it doable remains as it's main obstacle. Is it realistic or even logical is even more important. After watching the Z Addendum and the interview with Jacque I had more questions then he was able to convincingly answer either during the interview or on the VP website or in the FAQ you'll find there.

When you start peeling the layers away you discover that you're replacing one "elite" system with another. It has its very strong similarities to communism where all were equal and supposedly got an equal share of all the wealth or resources but we know that never happened.

In the resource based economy there is no money and you're able to get what ever you want free of charge??According to what parameters and who decides? At first the answer was the technicians and then the computers and then groups .......... in other words committees and a new form of elite that will decide for you. In order to be part of the system you have to agree to the terms of the Venus Project other wise you're not in the system. Agreeing to the terms entails giving up freedoms to abide by the new system that he is advocating.

As Utopian as it seems and sounds we comeback to the saying "if it's to good to be true then it isn't". After 35years why isn't there a city already built based on the resource based economy and all the beautiful pictures Jacque draws every day that will be an example of how good it works?

I see it as a system promoting and advocating a world wide commune and as nice as the potential life that is described within this commune history has shown that with all the best of intentions the commune system never worked and in reality was a massive failure and became a drain on the economies of the countries involved.

China is the best example of them all. Their economy started taking off only when they embraced the tenets of Capitalism and utilized them to their advantage within their still strict communistic country.

Like an onion when you start peeling away the layers in the end you end up with not much and in the case of the Venus Project and it's resource based economy as enticing as it seems and looks at first glance the bottom line is that it's not doable in my humble opinion.

Now George Carlin is funny but I hope he's not your proof positive that Americans have no rights? To easy to negate if that's the point you're trying to make.

Here are 2 videos that do negate the Venus Project's economic system. Get passed the unmade bed and listen to what the guy has to say. There are many like him out there and he's just an example; but an intelligent one.




You have to take off your hat to this 93 year old man who is definitely a genius but like many genius' a dreamer with non viable or doable ideas and this is a case in kind in my humble opinion. You can change the name and call it a "resource based economy" but when you peel the layers away all you have is a more modern concept of communism.

I do thank you for the info cos it definitely is an interesting read but I always loved science fiction.

Shalom,

Peter
Peter Fogel
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RE: Is thisThe Truth About Muhammad: QURAN is a FRAUD !
1/11/2010 10:24:27 AM
Hello Jim & All,

Here's an interesting article on the basics of Radical Islam.

Shalom,

Peter


Thursday, January 7, 2010


Radical Islamism: An Introductory Primer

Please subscribe

The following is intended as a work in progress to provide a very briefdiscussion of issues involving radical Islamism. Naturally, it is tooshort to make all points, deal with all aspects, and cover all details.I plan to expand it in future to include possible solutions.

By Barry Rubin

A young American named Ramy Zamzam, arrested in Pakistan for trying tofight alongside the Taliban, responded in an interview with theAssociated Press: "We are not terrorists. We are jihadists, and jihadis not terrorism."

What he says is well worth bearing in mind in order to understand thegreat conflict of our era. First and foremost, Jihadism or radicalIslamism is far more than mere terrorism. It is a revolutionarymovement in every sense of the word. It seeks to overthrow existingregimes and replace them with governments that will transform societyinto a nightmarishly repressive system.

And so one might put it this way: Revolutionary Islamism is the mainstrategic problem in the world today. Terrorism is the main tacticalproblem.

What is Islamism?

Radical Islamism is the doctrine that each Muslim majoritycountry—politics, economy, society—should be ruled by a totalitariandictatorship guided by the given movement’s definition of proper Islam.What Marxism was to Communism, and fascism to Nazism, Jihadism is toIslamism.

In some cases, Islamists have a wider ambition to transform the entireworld, starting with Europe. While this may seem ridiculous to mostWesterners, it does not seem so to the Islamists who hold that view.

Only a minority of Muslims is Islamist but that sector has grownsharply over the last twenty years and seems to be on the increasestill. Muslims are also among the greatest opponents of politicalIslamism, and often its victims. Among those rejecting it areconservative traditionalist Muslims and Arab (or other types of)nationalists, along with a very small group which can be called liberalreformist.

Three places have been under radical Islamist rule so far: Iran and theGaza Strip, as well as, temporarily, Afghanistan. An Islamist groupusing democratic tactics has gained control of the government inTurkey, where it is pursuing a step-by-step attempt to transform thatcountry which may or may not succeed. Radical Islamist movements havebeen active in well over 60 countries ranging from Australia andIndonesia in the east to Morocco in the west, and even in Europe andNorth America.

The fact that radical Islamism relates to a religion, Islam, is veryimportant (see below) but should not blind observers to the fact thatthis is basically a political movement and not—at least in the modernWestern sense—a theological one.

Of course, Islamism is rooted in Islam but a strong opposition toIslamism—a standpoint shared by many Muslims who may motivated by atraditional view of Islam, ethnic or nation-state nationalism, or adifferent radical ideology (Arab nationalism most likely)—is in no wayan expression of bigotry against a religion.
Similarly, the idea that opposition to Islamism is in some way “racist”is absurd since no “race” is involved. Just as opponents of Communism(capitalist, imperialist) and fascism (Jews, Bolsheviks) could bediscredited by calling them names, the same is done with those whooppose Islamism.

Very roughly, Islamism is parallel to Communism and fascism asrevolutionary mass movements. Analogies should not be carried too farbut are useful in understanding certain basic points.

There are a wide variety of Islamist groups. A small but energeticinternational grouping of local organizations called al-Qaida; MuslimBrotherhood branches, Hamas, and Hizballah are the best known. Invirtually every Muslim majority country and throughout Western Europethere are such organizations working very hard to gain state power.

What is the relationship of Islamism to Islam?

Islamism grows out of Islam and its advocates easily find widelyaccepted and very basic Islamic principles that justify their worldview and behavior. But Islamism is an interpretation of Islam and notthe only one possible. Indeed, for centuries there have been differentinterpretations.

To argue that Islamism is the inevitable or “correct” interpretation ofIslam is as silly as it is to argue that it is some external, hereticalideology which has “hijacked” Islam. A rough parallel can be made withthe relationship between Communism and either liberal or democraticsocialism, and of fascism compared to conservatism or nationalism.

What Islam “means” can only be interpreted in practice by Muslims in aprocess of debate and struggle. We will see what happens in the decadesto come. For outsiders to claim that Islam is “really” a religion ofpeace or “really” inevitably aggressive is meaningless. And, yes, nomatter how powerful a religious text seems to be worded, followers ofthat religion can always find ways to ignore or reinterpret those texts.

Just as the Islamists can base their case on original Islamic texts,their Muslim opponents can argue from centuries of practice as well astheir own interpretations. The reason that the Islamists (who wereearlier called “fundamentalists” for precisely this reason) have to goback to the seventh century texts—though of course there are later onesthey use that support their case—is that the intervening years did notfollow their precepts. Indeed, that is precisely their complaint.

What eventually emerged is what I call conservative traditionalistIslam which subordinated itself to the rulers. It was no longer arevolutionary doctrine. A key point in this approach was the argumentthat as long as the ruler was a believing Muslim he should be obeyed.In addition, it was a powerfully held stance that no Muslim could judgeand condemn as heretical the believes or behavior of other Muslims.Islamism had to combat these and other tenets of conservativetraditionalist Islam.

To summarize in one sentence: we should be absolutely honest in showinghow the most sacred texts of Islam appear to validate revolutionaryIslamists but we should understand that a struggle is going on amongMuslims in which different interpretations are contending. WhileIslamism is not the only possible interpretation of Islam, its approachis certainly shaped and justified by basic Islamic texts. UnlessMuslims and especially qualified clerics reinterpret these tenets,Islamism will continue to have a strong advantage in competing withconservative traditional Islam while liberal reformism will remain atiny, powerless viewpoint.

It is not that Islam has been hijacked, rather different forces are fighting over control of the steering wheel.

State sponsorship and nation-state ambitions

It is also, even when not so visibly state-sponsored, often aninstrument of specific states, most notably Iran and Syria. Trying tospread Islamist revolution has been a major goal since the takeover ofIran itself and fits closely with Iranian great power ambitions. Notall leaders have pursued this with equal vigor but it is a highpriority of the current rulers. A wide variety of organizations frombarely disguised front groups to powerful Islamist organizations inIraq, Lebanon, and among the Palestinians are used for this purpose.Most recently this pattern has been extended to Yemen. Some are pureassets, others client groups with a measure of independence.

While itself not an Islamist regime, Syria has understandablycalculated that the Islamist side serves its interests very well. Thus,idea that Syria can easily be pulled away from its alliance with Iranand backing for Islamist groups like Hamas and Hizballah is a fantasy.

It is quite true that al-Qaida has shown that Islamist groups don’thave to be state-backed but the fact is that many of them still areable to operate because there is a regime behind them.

Tactics and strategies

Like Communist movements in the past, Islamist movements use a widevariety of strategies and tactics. The use of a non-violent tactic—likeparticipation in elections—does not indicate that the group has ceasedto be revolutionary. Actually, it is tough pressure by the regime thatmight force the Islamist leadership to postpone revolutionary activityto the distant future (Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood), repress italtogether (Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood), or get it tied up in electoralknots (Jordan’s Muslim Brotherhood).

On the other hand, it is no accident that the most militant Islamistgroups have flourished where government is weakest: Hizballah, Hamas,and the Iraqi insurgents.

As for terrorism, that is a strategy and tactic which appeals to thesemovements for very specific reasons. These include the followingpoints. While the Islamists claim they are only conducting a “defensivejihad”—since there is no caliph, offensive jihad isn’t supposed tohappen—they are actually conducting offensive revolution.

The ideas that America is being attacked because Jihadists dislike itsfreedom or that it is being targeted because of its policies are bothpartly true. But precisely the same point could be made aboutCommunism, Nazism, and Japanese imperialism. The problem of Americanculture and freedom, however, does not relate to what goes on in theUnited States but the fear that this model will spread inevitably totheir own societies.

The complaint about U.S. policy is related to the fact that America isseen as a protector of the regimes the Islamists want to overthrow. Themotive here is not that these regimes are tyrannical but that they arenot Islamist. Lebanon and Turkey, the most democratic states in theMuslim-majority Middle East, have especially strong Islamist movements.

Another reason for targeting the United States or others in the West isthat killing infidels is popular among the Islamists’ constituency as asign of power to defeat the stronger West. The alternative is to focusterrorist attacks on the local governments. But killing fellow Muslimsis less popular and the governments strike back with ferociousrepression, while they are more likely to tolerate movements that onlyattack non-Muslims at home or abroad.

Why is terrorism used?

--It expresses the total and dehumanizing hatred Islamists have toward their enemies.

--It shows their disinterest in any compromise since the use of terrorism will dissuade their enemies from making deals.

--They believe that intimidation works and the history of terrorism shows they are not wrong in doing so.

--Terror, at least against non-Muslims, generally pleases their constituency and thus strengthens their base of support.

--This tactic fits with certain Islamic beliefs and texts whilewell-known clerics do not condemn terrorism, at least againstnon-Muslims, strongly, explicitly, and consistently.

It is tempting to say that terrorism is a tactic of last resort whenrepressive regimes permit no other route. But in most—though notall—cases, terrorism is used against the less tyrannical societies fora simple reason: the really repressive ones quickly kill theterrorists.

Conclusion

Neither more democracy nor more prosperity provides simple solutions tothis challenge by Islamism. Many Islamist leaders and cadre come fromwell-off families. They are driven by ideological, cultural, andreligious factors just as left-wing students in the West seek utopiantransformations of society. Equally, they are not driven by antagonismto tyranny since their goal is to establish a new, worse tyranny. Boththe Nazis and Communists came to power by overthrowing democraticregimes, in part through elections. With Islamism’s strength, theproblem is not the lack of democracy by the rulers but the lack of astrong democratic movement to compete with it.

The Islamist movements will only be defeated by the destruction ofviolent groups as well as a widespread perception among Muslims thatthey either cannot take power or are a disaster as rulers.

Better government and higher living standards in their own countrieswould help to some extent in some countries. Aside from notoverestimating this factor, it should be added that the West has no wayto make these things happen, by overthrowing and replacing regimes (asIraq and Afghanistan show), by changing its own policies, or bypressuring the incumbent regimes to change.

Barry Rubin is director of the Global Research in International Affairs(GLORIA) Center and editor of the Middle East Review of InternationalAffairs (MERIA) Journal. His latest books are The Israel-Arab Reader(seventh edition), The Long War for Freedom: The Arab Struggle forDemocracy in the Middle East (Wiley), and The Truth About Syria(Palgrave-Macmillan). To read and subscribe to MERIA, GLORIA articles, or to order books. To see or subscribe to his blog, Rubin Reports.
Peter Fogel
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