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Carterwill go down in history as the worst president ever. He is guilty ofbeing the first to indebt the American taxpayer to a foreign power.(Oil Crisis - Saudi Arabia- Carter sells out US taxpayer for oil) Sincethen it is the "Progressive Democrats" way of balancing budgets. Try tobalance your budget using their math. It cannot be done. Anything thisman says is questionable. IMHO

The problem with your responses most of the time is that your response consist of the opinions and its main point is to undermine the character of the person presenting the facts, or the opposing party in the discussion.

This is what politicians or lawyers do because their goal is not to uncover the truth but to win the argument. I'm presenting to you facts and if you don't agree with them, show me reliable source saying otherwise.

I don't disagree with your that there are terrorist, that there are fundamentalist, all I'm showing to you is that this is the direct result of American Foreign policies.

I'm not sure but it looked like you were trying to discredit the authors of the "The Israel Lobby and American Foreign Policies"

I would suggest that you open the link I have given you to the 1.5 hour presentation at MIT and discussion where both sides have the chance to show their points. They both agree on many matters contained in the book. I also encourage you to read a book so you are ready to discuss some of the issues in there if you really are interested in talking about it with me. Don't jump to conclusions without having deeper understanding of it.

There will be many who will reject it as it discusses issues which average politician or scholar wants to stay away in fear of being called antisemitic.
For anyone who is tainted as antisemitic, political future in US is finished.

Also there is a lack of pluralistic discussion in US, it is getting much like in the former SU.
Anyone who questions government gets discredited and ridiculed.

Bogdan Fiedur

Thanks for your reply Bogdan,

I do read. Books even. Oh yeah, I call myself a redneck but don't let that fool you. I promise not to make any Polish references. Sorry couldn't help myself. But just like there are a lot of Redneck jokes there are as least as many that pick on others.

You wish to have a discussion related to another fallacy. That American foreign policy is driven by Israeli interests. That is fine as my friend Peter, can cover points I may be short on. Let's have that discussion. Shall I start a new thread?

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Thanks for your reply Bogdan,

I do read. Books even. Oh yeah, I call myself a redneck but don't let that fool you. You wish to have a discussion related to another fallacy. That American foreign policy is driven by Israeli interests. That is fine as my friend Peter, can cover points I may be short on. Let's have that discussion. Shall I start a new thread?

Jim,

I'm sure, Peter will show up here eventually without you starting new thread. :)
I'm not suggesting you are not reading books, but all you do as your response to the provided sources is discrediting tactics without giving any arguments in regards to the material contained in the publication.

I would really appreciate if your responses are supported with facts and less with opinions.

You started the discussion and I have accepted the challenge, let's be fair.

Bogdan

Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,

USA supported Taliban and helped grow it to defeat Soviets and in fact provoked the war between Soviets and Afghanistan.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates,stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligenceservices began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before theSoviet intervention. In this period you were the national securityadviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in thisaffair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aidto the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Sovietarmy invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretlyguarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to theopponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrotea note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinionthis aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. Butperhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked toprovoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that theyintended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States inAfghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis oftruth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had theeffect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me toregret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, Iwrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to theUSSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carryon a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought aboutthe demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban orthe collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or theliberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard toIslam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in arational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leadingreligion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there incommon among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistanmilitarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothingmore than what unites the Christian countries.

Translated from the French by Bill Blum

Bogdan Fiedur

In this new and expanded edition of Michel Chossudovsky's 2002 best seller, the author blows away the smokescreen put up by the mainstream media, that 9/11 was an attack on America by "Islamic terrorists". Through meticulous research, the author uncovers a military-intelligence ploy behind the September 11 attacks, and the cover-up and complicity of key members of the Bush Administration.

The expanded edition, which includes twelve new chapters focuses on the use of 9/11as a pretext for the invasion and illegal occupation of Iraq, the militarisation of justice and law enforcement and the repeal of democracy.

According to Chossudovsky, the "war on terrorism" is a complete fabrication based on the illusion that one man, Osama bin Laden, outwitted the $40billion-a-year American intelligence apparatus. The "war on terrorism" is a war of conquest. Globalisation is the final march to the "New World Order",dominated by Wall Street and the U.S. military-industrial complex.

September 11, 2001 provides a justification for waging a war without borders. Washington's agenda consists in extending the frontiers of the American Empire to facilitate complete U.S. corporate control, while installing within America the institutions of the Homeland Security State.