Menu



error This forum is not active, and new posts may not be made in it.
Helen Elias

801
1370 Posts
1370
Invite Me as a Friend
Re: HSIG - Iranian Official - US Hired Mosque Bombers
5/29/2009 9:24:13 PM

Hello Peter and all

Here's more outrageousness (is that a word?  I guess it is now).

For the person who hasn't the time to read the entire article, if you read the text colored blue, you will get a good picture of what is happening.

Helen

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99438


between the lines Joseph Farah

Obama tells Jews where they can live

Posted: May 29, 2009
1:00 am Eastern

© 2009 

Barack Obama is taking what he and his administration refer to as "a more balanced approach to Middle East policy."

Let me explain what that literally means in real terms.

It means the U.S. government is now using its clout with Israel to insist Jews, not Israelis, mind you, but Jews, be disallowed from living in East Jerusalem and the historically Jewish lands of Judea and Samaria, often referred to as the West Bank.

I want you to try to imagine the outrage, the horror, the outcry, the clamoring, the gnashing of teeth that would ensue if Arabs or Muslims were told they could no longer live in certain parts of Israel – let alone their own country.

Of course, that would never happen with "a more balanced approach to the Middle East."

It's the 1930s all over again. This time, it's the enlightened liberal voices of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama who are telling Jews where they can live, how they can live and how far they must bend if they want to live at all.

I know you haven't heard it put like this before. I don't really understand why. There is simply no other accurate way to explain the machinations behind the latest demands on Israel from the West and the rest of the world.

Israel is being reduced to "Auschwitz borders." Jews have already been told they can no longer live in the Gaza Strip. Now they are being told they can no longer choose to live in any of the areas being set aside by international elites for a future Palestinian state.

Again, I ask, "Why would internationalists seek to create, by definition, a racist, anti-Jewish state that doesn't even tolerate the mere presence of Jews?"

Can anyone answer that question for me?

Obama and Clinton – and, thus, by definition, you and me, the taxpayers of the United States – have determined they will yield to the racist, bigoted, anti-Semitic demands of the Palestinian Authority that no Jews be allowed to live in their new state.

I like to think that in any other part of the world, this kind of effort at ethnically cleansing a region would be roundly condemned by all civilized people. Yet, because most people simply don't understand the clear, official plan by the Arab leaders to force out all Jews from the new Palestinian state, the policies of capitulation retain a degree of sympathy, even political support, from much of the world.

Think about what I am saying: It is the official policy of the Palestinian Authority that all Jews must get off the land! Why is the United States supporting the creation of a new, racist, anti-Semitic hate state? Why is the civilized world viewing this as a prescription for peace in the region? Why is this considered an acceptable idea?

Is there any other place in the world where that kind of official policy of racism and ethnic cleansing is tolerated – even condoned?

Why are the rules different in the Middle East? Why are the rules different for Arabs? Why are the rules different for Muslims?

Why are U.S. tax dollars supporting the racist, anti-Semitic entity known as the Palestinian Authority?

That's what we do when we forbid "settlement construction," repairs, natural growth, additions to existing communities.

This is "balance"? Are there any impositions upon the Arabs and Muslims suggesting they can no longer move to Israel? No. Are there any impositions on Arabs and Muslims suggesting they cannot buy homes in Israel? No. Are there any impositions on Arabs and Muslim suggesting they cannot repair their existing homes in Israel? No. Are there any impositions on Arabs or Muslims suggesting they cannot build settlements anywhere they like? No.

Now, keep in mind, there are already quite a few Arab and Muslim states in the Middle East. Many of them already forbid Jews to live in them. Some prohibit Christians as well. But now, the only Jewish state in the world, and one that has a claim on the land dating back to the days of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is being told Jews must keep off land currently under their own control, but destined for transfer to people who hate them, despise them, want to see them dead and will not even accept living peacefully with them as neighbors.

All the while, Israel continues to hold out its naïve hand of friendship to the Arabs and the Muslims – welcoming them in their own tiny nation surrounded by hateful neighbors. Arabs and Muslims are offered full citizenship rights – and even serve in elected office. They publish newspapers and broadcast on radio and television freely.

But, conversely, Jews are one step away from eviction from homes they have sometimes occupied for generations. Gaza is about to happen all over again.

I hope my Jewish friends remember this well. Many of them voted for Barack Obama. Many of them voted for Hillary Clinton. These are not your friends. These are the same kinds of people who turned away ships of Jewish refugees from Germany in the 1940s. These are the same kinds of people who appeased Adolf Hitler at Munich. These are the same kinds of people who made the reformation of the modern state of Israel so difficult.

I say, "No more ethnic cleansing. No more official anti-Semitism accepted. No more Jew-bashing. No more telling Jews where they can live, how they can – and if they can live."




Spend $4 and get back $10 every time you spend. Contact me (Helen) at this email »»» zhebee@yahoo.com
+0
Peter Fogel

1470
7259 Posts
7259
Invite Me as a Friend
Top 25 Poster
Person Of The Week
Re: HSIG - Were BHO's Declarations To Abbas A Surprise?
5/30/2009 4:13:41 AM
Hi Helen,

Thank you for posting Joseph Farah's excellent article. He explained the situation well but left out a few things in regard to the PA that includes both the Fatah (PLO and Abbas stands at its head) and Hamas. There are also a few other splinter organizations that are also backed by the Islamic Brotherhood.

B Hussein's obsession with the settlements and the 2 state solution blinds him (and Hillary) to the fact that terrorism is continuing on a steady basis and that both the Hamas and PLO/Fatah have charters that calls for the annihilation of Israel and all the Jews. He asks for no concessions from the Palestinians to reach a peace agreement and so far the demands are on Israel only. He doesn't seem to grasp that the Palestinians aren't interested in land but the destruction of Israel and we'll fight that regardless of him and his declarations.

On the other hand it might not be blindness but part of his agenda to critically harm Israel and that is not such a far fetched thought. Let's not forget his deep bow to the Saudi King and the despicable speech he made on his visit to Turkey. The article below brings that into clear perspective to see what this man's mindset is as opposed to others in the Western world.

I wonder if calling him a "closet" Muslim is already considered against the law? He is planning to appoint an Internet Czar and then who knows? He's trying to silence all opposition so this is most probably his next step.

In June he'll be making a "historic" speech in Egypt (I guess we already know what he'll be spouting there) and off the cuff decided to make a side trip to his liege the Saudi King. Wonder what surprises he'll have in store for us then. Apologize some more for hunting down the Jihadi terrorists by previous administrations most probably.

His declarations didn't surprise me and I wonder what Bibi plans to do about it. One thing for sure his coalition government won't allow him to cave in to B Hussein's demands since Israel can't be accused of being suicidal.

The below article from the New English Review by Hugh Fitzgerald shows B Hussein's 
mindset and how it differs from the European leaders. That catastrophic European trip was his first and his gaffes, blunders and apologies were registered and his weakness (and true loyalties) documented for all to see.

Shalom,

Peter

Also Sprach Obama

by Hugh Fitzgerald (May 2009)


Barack Obama and Nicolas Sarkozy do not see eye-to-eye on
Turkey. Sarkozy does not want Turkey admitted to the E.U. Nor does Angela Merkel. Nor do the leaders of Italy, the Netherlands, Denmark, or Great Britain. Nor, one suspects, does any leader in any of the member-states of the E.U. What about their citizens? They, too, seem distinctly unenthusiastic about admitting, as what would be the most populous member of the E.U., a country that is not only 99% Muslim, but that is becoming less Kemalist, and more truly Muslim, every day.

But Barack Obama, and those who advise him, possess the o'erweening presumption to attempt to tell the people and nations of Western Europe that, because Turkey is a "moderate Muslim state," it needs to only be further "anchored" in the Western world. Those worried about 80 million additional Muslims in Western Europe, free to move about from country to country without a visa-- and how many others, assorted Muslims from outside Turkey, will be able to slip in disguised as Turks while the hopelessly understaffed border patrols of Western Europe have no idea how to distinguish a Turk from, say, an Azeri from northern Iran, or even from an Arab from northern Syria or northern Iraq. The problem that European nations now face - those endless boatloads of people, Muslims and sub-Saharan Africans - crossing the Mediteranean, that is coming by sea - would be increased with immigrants flowing in, ceaselessly, from Turkey, by land, without even that sea as a minimal barrier.

What would any American government think if the government of France told it that it had a "duty" to open its southern border to anyone and everyone from Mexico, because that would "anchor" Mexico in the North American sphere, and then not only would thirty million Mexicans cross the border, but so too might tens of millions of others, from elsewhere in Latin America, who could more readily pose as "Mexicans" just as, in the case of Turkey in the E.U., many non-Turkish Kurds, Azeris, Arabs, and other Muslims who might appear in France, or Italy, or England as "Turks," with even greater ease, and in even greater numbers, than they manage to do, with such impunity, today. 

And Obama speaks with equal certitude when, in speaking to the world's Muslims, he announces that, "The trust that binds us has been strained." 

What "trust" is it that "binds us"? The "trust" that Pakistani generals, ramrod-straight, Sandhurst-educated, terry-thomased moustachioed, pukka-sahib fly-whisks in hand, would forever be true-blue friends of their counterparts in the Pentagon, and would never ever betray the trust that the Americans showed over so many decades, supporting Pakistan ever since the days of CENTO. CENTO, some amy need to be reminded, was a fiasco as a military pact (with Iran, Iraq, Turkey, and Pakistan supposedly offering a "Muslim" version of NATO where the United States and Great Britain would supply the money, the weapons, the training, and our loyal Muslim allies the manpower), that first tied the American and the Pakistani military together. Was it the "trust" that allowed the ISI to divert American aid from what it was given for, to A. Q. Khan's little nuclear project? 

Was it the "trust" that made Jimmy Carter hail Khomeini as a "fellow man of faith" without him, Carter, bothering then, or bothering in the thirty years since, to find out what that "faith" - the faith in Islam - inculcated? 

Was it the "trust" that caused American policymakers to assume that Turkey would remain on the Kemalist path, and to ignore, underneath the bright young officer corps that remained in the Kemalist line, the primitive masses of Muslims in Turkey who were ready for Erbakan, and Erdogan, and Gul? 

Was it the "trust" that allowed the Americans to overlook, for decades, what Saudi Arabia was like, what its textbooks and clerics taught (and teach still) about Infidels, what vast sums the Saudis and other rich Arabs gave for the spreading of Islam all over the West, and also to corrupt, through armies of Western hirelings, the policy-making apparatus of the Western world, and to delay the day of recognition of what Saudi Arabia, and Islam, meant for the West? 

Was it the "trust" that American policymakers keep putting in Egypt, another "staunch ally" that is in fact a world center of antisemitism, at the center of Arab League machinations to prevent any effective halt to Arab operations in Darfur, Egypt with its renewed persecution of the Copts, and a population eager to pocket American aid, but at the same time deeply hostile to America

Was it the "trust" that America had in Jordan, and its plucky little king, Hussein, as he was formulaically known, a country which, like Egypt, will take what it can get from the Americans but whose population remains - and will always remain - as deeply hostile as are the Muslims of Egypt?

Was it the "trust" that the American government put in Karzai, the ineffective, corrupt ruler of Afghanistan, who is quick to go on the attack against the Americans, whenever it suits his purpose, whenever it can gain him domestic support at home? 

Was it the "trust" that the Americans have put in the Muslims who have been allowed to come to America, and who have become, as all over the Western world they have become, sources of domestic disruption, of campus anti-Israel and antisemitic activity, of security risks in the government, of the exploitation of power by Muslims to manipulate the system in order to further the cause of Islam in the West (as in the case of the Boston Mosque and the below-market-value sale of city land arranged secretly by a Muslim member of the Boston Redevelopment Association)? 

Is all that the kind of "trust" we once had, we Americans and the world's Muslims, and somehow we, the American side, allowed that trust to evanesce, because of nearly ten thousand terrorist attacks, and millions of attacks daily in other, nonviolent ways, as attempts are steadily underway to slowly and steadily subvert the workings of, and the Western support for Infidel legal and political institutions. Just look in Denmark and The Netherlands, at the attempts to suffocate the exercise by Western men of their own freedoms, guaranteed in their own countries, if such exercise is believed by Muslims to get in the way of the spread, and then the certain dominance, of Islam.

What "trust"? The "trust" of those who practice taqiyya and kitman? The "trust" due to those who believe that Muhammad was the Perfect Man, al-insan al-kamil, worthy of emulation in all things, for all time, the same Muhammad who said, so celebratedly, that "war is deception"? 

Which trust is that that binds us? 

"The United States and Europe must approach Muslims as our friends, neighbors and partners in fighting injustice, intolerance and violence, forging a relationship based on mutual respect and mutual interests," Obama told the summit.

"Moving forward toward Turkish membership in the EU would be an important signal of your (EU) commitment to this agenda and ensure that we continue to anchor
Turkey firmly in Europe," he told EU leaders.

Why "must" the United States and Europe approach Muslims as "our friends" and "partners in fighting injustice, intolerance and violence"? Does Islam teach Muslims that they can be "friends" with non-Muslims, or does Islam inculcate the idea that Muslims must not "take Jews and Christians and friends"? And does Islam not further teach that a Muslim may feign friendship, for the greater good of Islam, with non-Muslims, but cannot offer real friendship? 

Is not Islam based on the very idea of a permanent state of war between Muslim and Non-Muslim, Believer and Infidel? Does it not impose as a duty, central and not tangential, on all Muslims some kind of participation in the "struggle" or Jihad to remove all obstacles to the spread, and then the dominance, of Islam, not only in Dar al-Islam, but in Dar al-Harb, the Domain or House of War, where Infidels as yet have not succumbed to Islam?

Does Barack Obama know any of this? Does he know it, but not believe it?

Does he know it, and does he believe it, but do both he, and those advising him, possibly think it best to pretend otherwise, and to collaborate in a dangerous strategy of misrepresenting Islam to Infidels, including those imperiled in Western Europe by the previous acts of nearly criminal negligence on the part of their own political and media elites, that allowed so many Muslims to settle deep behind what Muslims themselves are taught to regard as enemy lines? 

At best, Obama is a naif. At worst, he and those advising him are a shallow calculators, tinhorn Machiavels who are simply not up to the task of defending the Infidel world against Muslims, against Islam.

And besides, when he utters such nonsense -- so easily disproved -- he increases distrust, by Americans themselves as well as other Westerners,  of American government, and causes not only American, but European Infidels, to become confused, and demoralized.

An unacceptable statement, untrue in every particular except one: geographically, some Muslim states -- e.g.
Turkey -- are indeed the "neighbors" of some Infidel lands. In just the same way, Germany under Hitler was a "neighbor" to Poland and to France. And the Soviet Union was a "neighbor" to the countries the Red Army subdued in Eastern Europe. And Communist China is a "neighbor" to Tibet. So what? 

“The
United States has been enriched by Muslim-Americans,” the president said. “Many other Americans have Muslims in their family, or have lived in a Muslim-majority country. . . . I know,” he said, “because I am one of them.” Thus Obama in Istanbul.

And this great O doth lead to th’other, that is to Othello, who unlike Obama was not an American, but did “have Muslims” in his family and must surely “have lived in a Muslim-majority country” in his youth. For Othello was a Moor, that is a North African of indeterminate but dusky hue, albeit one who must necessarily have been a Christian convert, for he could not otherwise have been a military leader of Christian (Venetian) forces against the Ottoman Turks.

Obama just today requested another $84 billion to fund the follies, those expensive attempts to bring stability, and prosperity, and unity (in differing, and ever-diminishing, hoped-for amounts) to
Iraq, to Afghanistan, even to Pakistan.

Perhaps this O could be reminded of that O’s expressed desire to say "farewell" to "triumphal pomp" and the "big wars."

Perhaps this O could be reminded of that O’s proud memory of how, summarily and violently, he dealt with the Muslim enemy, as in Aleppo once, where --when a malignant and a turban’d Turk dared to beat a Venetian, and traduced the state -- then he, that mighty O, Othello the Moor of Venice, took by the throat that circumcised Muslim dog and smote him, thus.

So that's the lesson. Farewell to the big wars. But be ready to smite the enemy. Thus. And thus.

And only: thus.

Hugh Fitzgerald contributes regularly to The Iconoclast, our Community Blog. Click here to see all his contributions, on which comments are welcome. 

New English Review

Peter Fogel
Babylon 7
+0
Helen Elias

801
1370 Posts
1370
Invite Me as a Friend
Re: HSIG - Were BHO's Declarations To Abbas A Surprise?
5/30/2009 5:04:21 AM


Hello Peter

Thanks for adding your comments to the article I posted.  It is how I am learning what really is going on in the Middle East. 


You said about Obama, "He's trying to silence all opposition so this is most probably his next step." 

In another comment, you mentioned something about him maybe being a closet Muslim.

This silencing the opposition smells just like what the Muslims what the world to do.  If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then it probably is a Muslim, ...Oh, I mean, a duck.

Helen
Spend $4 and get back $10 every time you spend. Contact me (Helen) at this email »»» zhebee@yahoo.com
+0
Peter Fogel

1470
7259 Posts
7259
Invite Me as a Friend
Top 25 Poster
Person Of The Week
Re: HSIG - Were BHO's Declarations To Abbas A Surprise?
6/3/2009 12:45:20 AM

Hello Helen,

It certainly quacks like a duck. :)

Shalom,

Peter

Peter Fogel
Babylon 7
+0
Peter Fogel

1470
7259 Posts
7259
Invite Me as a Friend
Top 25 Poster
Person Of The Week
Re: HSIG - The 2 State Solution a Pipe Dream ?
6/3/2009 12:49:58 AM

Hello Friends,

The 2 State solution that B Hussein is grasping for is not based so much on reality but on his continued agenda of appeasing and serving his Muslim liege. That part of his plan is backfiring since none of the Muslim countries are "heeding" his request for support other then the tiny Jordanian King that only wants the Palestinian issue resolved so that his country won't be involved in what should be a natural state of affairs since 80% of the citizens of Jordan are "Palestinians".

It seems that B Hussein only has demands on Israel and figures that the the settlements in Judea and Sammaria are the crux of the problem and that is a fallacy that has been proven false time and time again.

I guess that B Hussein forgot that all previous agreements with the PA were broken by them and the basic foundation for any peace talks has to be just that talks and actions taken by the Palestinians not only by Israel.

I would like to see his forthrightness and demands on the Palestinians to stop all terror, the brainwashing of their children from kindergarten up to hate and kill, recognize Israel as a Jewish State and so much more before he makes demands on Israel that will not change the situation in the least other then to teach the Palestinians that they can get it all without having to concede a thing.

Below is an excellent article by Moshe Arens who in the past was a Knesset member for many years and held many ministerial positions including Defense, Foreign Affairs and more. He was also the Israeli Ambassador in the USA for a few years.

He is very analytical in this article and mentions and covers most of the issues aside form the blatant one that B Hussein is definitely biased in the Palestinians favor. I wonder what orders he'll get from his liege the Saudi King today during his visit there.

I wonder if anyone noticed that he added on Saudi Arabia to this trip at the last moment (for obvious reasons) and will be flying over Israel in order to reach Egypt for his apologetic speech there but will not be stopping in Israel during this trip. Something to think about isn't it. I've seen this called by others the missing leg of the trip. Oh well, the great pretender, appeaser and apologist can't tarnish that Muslim exterior with a visit to Israel now can he.

Shalom,

Peter

Read more about Moshe Arens here and here.



Last update - 10:13 02/06/2009
So what's your solution?
By Moshe Arens


The supporters of the "two-state" solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have a sure way of nonplussing those who express reservations about it. Just look them in the eye and ask "so what's your solution?" The answer to this attack should be an invitation to sit back, relax and analyze the problem for a few moments. Let's agree on a few axioms that any proposed solution should not violate.

Axiom No. 1. Jews have a right to settle and live in the Land of Israel. This right is founded not only on the Bible and the history of the Jewish people, but has also been recognized by the international community in the League of Nations mandate for Palestine, a recognition that has never been revoked. It is true that some people do not recognize this right. The Palestinian Authority has a law on its books providing the death penalty for selling land to a Jew. It may be that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton do not recognize this right, but they should be reminded of the time when there were restricted communities in the United States where Jews were not allowed to live. That kind of restriction is long gone in the U.S. and should certainly not be applied now in the Land of Israel.

Axiom no. 2. There is a limit to the size of the minority population that can be included within the borders of the State of Israel without endangering the Jewish state's ethnic coherence. Just what that limit is depends on the degree of integration of these minorities into Israeli society. Whereas Israel has been very successful in this area with the Druze and the small Circassian community, by virtue of their service in the Israel Defense Forces, it has yet to seriously tackle the challenge of integrating Israel's Arab population. There is no reason to assume that we have already reached the upper limit, but we may not be far from it.


Axiom no. 3. No populated region on this earth will remain permanently without some national sovereignty. The present status of Judea and Samaria and Gaza is an anomaly that will not last.

Axiom no. 4. Jordan is a Palestinian state. Seventy percent of its population is Palestinian, and if its Bedouin are to be counted as Palestinians, as they are in Israel, then its entire population is Palestinian. This is a statement of fact and does not preclude the establishment of a second or third Palestinian state.

So what are the possible alternative solutions that do not violate these axioms? Here are four.

1. Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip become a Palestinian state - the "two-state" solution.

2. Judea and Samaria become a Palestinian state, and the Gaza Strip becomes another Palestinian state - the "three-state" solution.

3. Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip are incorporated into Jordan.

4. Judea and Samaria are incorporated into Jordan, and the Gaza Strip is incorporated into Egypt - more or less a return to the situation before the Six-Day War. It is hard to think of any additional solutions that do not violate the four axioms, but let us now look at implementing these solutions.

It turns out that the precondition for implementing any of the four is the elimination of Palestinian terrorism. The withdrawal of the IDF from Judea and Samaria would turn the area, much of it next to Israel's major cities, into bases for acts of terror against Israel's civilian population, whether by suicide bombers or rockets. Inevitably the IDF would have to respond against the areas from which these acts of terror originated.

In other words, neither the "two-state" nor "three-state" solution can be implemented before Palestinian terrorism has been suppressed. The same is true, although not quite in the same sense, for the third and fourth alternatives. Both Jordan and Egypt have shown that they are capable of dealing with the danger of terrorism. The Jordanian security services have been successfully dealing with Palestinian terrorism ever since "Black September" in 1970. The Egyptians have been dealing with Muslim Brotherhood terrorism, and in recent years with Hamas and Hezbollah. However, neither would be prepared to risk overloading that capability by incorporating terrorist-infested areas into their territory. The defeat of Palestinian terrorism could open the possibility of implementing any of the four solutions.

The inescapable conclusion is that Palestinian terrorism has to be eliminated before seriously approaching any of the alternate solutions. At the moment, the "two-state" solution is a fantasy. This will sooner or later become clear to Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. So what's your solution?

Haaretz.Com

Peter Fogel
Babylon 7
+0


facebook
Like us on Facebook!