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Marisol Sosa

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THE RESURRECTION: FACT OR FICTION?
11/7/2007 6:49:59 AM
Did Christ really rise from the dead? "Christ has indeed been raised from the dead." (1 Cor. 15:20). Jesus said, "...I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!..." (Rev. 1:18). God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. (Acts 2:32). It is true! The Lord has risen....(Luke 24:34). I know that my Redeemer (Jesus Christ) lives,....(Job 19:25,NIV).
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James Wright

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Re: THE RESURRECTION: FACT OR FICTION?
11/8/2007 7:24:46 AM

Hi Marisol, thank you for sharing these important texts. I believe they should help our friend Laila who asked this question: 

"So who were the witnesses of Him, Jesus, and His body going up into the sky that covers the earth. Give me the quotation of the bible. Will you?"

Matt. 28:2-6  2There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. 5The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.

John 20:11-18  11but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot. 13They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?"  "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him." 14At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. 15"Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him." 16Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher). 17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. " 18Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

Mark 16:9-11 9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.

Luke 24:1-32 

The Resurrection

1On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' " 8Then they remembered his words.

 9When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. 12Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.

On the Road to Emmaus

 13Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16but they were kept from recognizing him.

 17He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?"

They stood still, their faces downcast. 18One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?"

 19"What things?" he asked.

 "About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."

 25He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Did not the Christ[b] have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

 28As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them.

 30When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

Acts 1:8-11 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

 9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

 10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Laila, I hope these texts will help you also!

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Marisol Sosa

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Re: THE RESURRECTION: FACT OR FICTION?
11/9/2007 7:10:33 PM
"It is written:..." (Matthew 4:4). "Do NOT go beyond what is written." (1 Corinthians 4:6,NIV).
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Laila Falck

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Re: The Second Coming of Christ...and the Millenium - Part I
11/13/2007 10:07:05 AM
    Hi Lissa Nixon.This is Laila in Sweden.
Thank you for finding out something for me, namely witnesses who saw Jesus being raised to the sky.

This was half new to me. I recognised it. From school lessons.
I have some comments. The first is that I am not satisfied intellectually with  a literal  up and downcoming of Jesus. There is no way  for me to get around reason here.

My standpoint is that as we have reason and intellectual capacity to manage in this world, that capacity should be used as much as possible,and we  avoid superstition. Science is  a mighty balancing factor. It + reason says clouds rises from the ground, they do not come down. I suggest we should ponder upon Acts. 8-11 a second time.
This doesn't interfere with  spiritual capacity, given in belief, Belief in God, The Holy Spirit and to be able to be inspired by it.  Even in the old part of the Bible we are told to believe with understanding,( by reason) soul and heart (spiritually). Am I not right.?

I'd dwell  mainly at verse 8 in this first chapter of Acts. It says that "when the Holy Spirit comes upon you; you will be my witnesses" The Holy Spirit will give the power. I think this is the most important message in the verse. It is to me selfevident that the main thing is to be inspired by the Spirit, not to gaze up to the sky." Why "do you do that they are questioned. Yes, why?

God could have said that Jesus would come up from the earth instead of from the sky. Then the Christians would have looked to the ground. I am sorry to say. I do not mean to offend anyone.                                                          But it doesn't matter to me or to my point of view. The main thing is that the power will come from the Holy Spirit, which is emphasised as much here . I hold this as  the most precious and sole lesson in this part of Acts.

In the divine lesson in Acts. the picture of the sky and the cloud is  however chosen. And with it that comes the TEST!. As it always does when a Manifestation of God is to be presented to men. With  the Bahai case the whole of mankind is tested.
The test , the cloud ,in the case of Moses was His murdering of a person and His inability to speak correctly. How could a murderer be a representative of God?. Still He was.  Then we have Jesus Himself. What was He, as a son of a simple timberman, from the detested village of Bethlehem. He was a nobody. We all know how peoples attitude to this was. That were the clouds of those days and prevented many from approaching Him in belief and seeing His glorious station.
Clouds of this kind would come in the future at His coming back.
In the case of Bahaullah 1819 -1892), Founder of the Bahai Faith, it was, among other things, His imprisonment. He was imprisoned for the same reason as Jesus was. The authorities, the clergy and the government in alliance, were afraid of Him agitating the peoples and stripping them off their power. As for Bahaullah He was incarcerated during 40 years. Tortured and banished from His home country, to end up in the Crusaders Fort of Acre. They,the Persian ayatollahs and the shah, didn't kill Him because He was delineated from a wellknown family of good repute. His father was the chairman of the government, and that saved Him. And , I guess, since His family line is to be traced back to Abraham and Ketura. Ponder upon that!
So, Clouds, clouds clouds is nothing new, Who is Prophet in His own country. Abraham was banished too. As was Moses.
Imprisonment and penalties come together with the divine  robe of Glory, one might say.  Surely Jesus could have walked down from the cross. Surely Bahaullah could have walked out of prison, but, since imprisonment, torments, banishment are signs for the people, clouds, covering the glory, they did not deviate from the pattern.
Next time a Messenger from God comes to men, we might see a holy woman, . I am just giving examples of clouds. Then being female would be a cloud, hiding her divinity from the doubters and others.
Now you surely understand what I mean. This attitude has given me a new and wonderful life.

Bye for now
Many greetings to all from
Laila

"Earth is but one country and mankind it's citizens" "The source of arts and crafts is the power of reflection" Bahá'u'lláh.1817-1892 Founder of the Bahái'Faith
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Laila Falck

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Re: THE RESURRECTION: FACT OR FICTION?
11/15/2007 5:31:21 AM
Hi Marisol good morning!
I hope you are happy and well.
 Not until this morning did I see that you seem to have answered my question. And given several quotes from the Bible. The question of: Who did actually see Jesus go up into this firmament of the earth? I am asking since it seems to me that Christians are saying He will come, with body and all from the atmosphere of this earthly globe, on clouds. That's why I am asking this, you see.    If you are not awaiting this then the question is irrelevant.

It seems as though you doubt that I believe that Jesus was resurrected from the death. All the quotes is about that. I do not doubt that at all.
There were disciples  and angels who saw Him after death.I have read that. But  of course He, as a Messenger of God, could make the disciples see His body as it was once when alive, even though the material body had died on the cross. I also think that they were spiritually strong enough to be able to see Him, when He wanted that.  Moreover, If disciples could see angels,  at Jesus's grave +Acts.1:8-11, why then would it be such a miracle that they could see Jesus too, when His body had been killed. He was, after all Gods Messenger and the Bearer of the Holy Spirit.
You think you have to fight my Faith. I can tell you, there is nothing to fight about. I am at all times defending the Station of Christ, when I meet doubters and others. They are many in my country. It might be that Sweden is the most secular country in the world, a friend of mine said the other day.                         
So it's a miracle that I have found,or rather been led to by God, to a Belief in Him  at all. I am a Bahai and a true faithful believer in Christ all since 37 years.

My question is however, who saw Him, His body, go up to the skies, while He was ascending? I think the answer is given in Acts as Lissa has pointed out. But again, the "Jesus" going up to heaven in Acts 1:8-11 is a spiritual  or "upperworldly" version, or a vision  because the body died at the cross.
Now you can see what I am asking about. The material body. How could it go up and how could it come down in future.I do not get  more light in my  spirit through believing this up and down going. I do not accept it because we shall use reason and understanding as well as being uplifted by the Holy Spirit. They do not exclude one another. And...This isn't so dangerous, or, what do you think now Marisol?

The main thing about Jesus, for me, is that His teachings were taught to the spiritually hungry people of His time And then through the disciples and then through the gospel. That He taught them to love and make peace with one another by the help of Gods power in a new and restored Faith in Him as the Intermediary of God. The Faith of Christ was later elevated by the Emperor in Eastrome, Konstantin I believe, and that way the Faith ascended to the level of general recognition and acceptance by masses. This isTHE TRUE ASCENSION OF CHRIST, the ascension that matters for million of longing hearts and souls.
 
The miracle of His showing His dead body to the disciples was an additional act that was necessary to comfort the sad followers and suitable for the time .But since the emperors assistance about 300 a.c.  it has been the pride of Kings and other emperors. And it is still in that level. This is what I would stress about the Faith of Jesus. Why?
Because I have felt the love from Jesus, and the Founder of the Bahai Faith, Bahaullah encouraged me to investigate all about Jesus and to study the gospel, nay the whole Bible. So.. what is there to repudiate in "my Faith" , that was a strange thing to you , disturbing you. We Bahais are also told that we must believe in the Immaculate birth of Jesus, by the Holy Virgin Maria.
Have a great day Marisol.
Kind regards from Laila

"Earth is but one country and mankind it's citizens" "The source of arts and crafts is the power of reflection" Bahá'u'lláh.1817-1892 Founder of the Bahái'Faith
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