Hi James, I address this post to Lissa,
I am quite new to this forum, but I am very interested in everybody's interest in the second coming of Christ. So, I'll jump right into what you quoted. And ask:
WHO DID SEE THE PERSON JESUS CHRIST RISE INTO THE SKY, WHERE does it say that Jesus in His body went up to this firmament we call the atmosphere AND THE STRATOSPHERE AND THE OZONLAYER..
I do not know the Bible by heart as most Christians seem to be, lavishing quotations on the readers, but surely I have come to believe in Christ, BECAUSE I am a Bahai. (More about that below)and a followerof Bahaullah (1817-1892) Founder of the Bahai Faith.
So who were the witnesses of Him, Jesus, and His body going up into the sky that covers the earth. Give me the quotation of the bible? Will you. It is assumed that He will come in Person from the earthly heaven for a second time. From this assumption many seem to base another assumption that there have been witnesses to His ascending in body into this heaven. If there were no witnesses, we can forget this issue. I know this much, the grave was empty of the body of Christ, when two women believers went there.
So how did they see His body ascend into heaven? In Matthew 28 we learn about the angel saying He has arisen from the dead and that the disciples met Him and was comforted, we may assume, by Him. But who actually saw Him go up into this sky? To rise from the dead doesn't mean that He went into the sky above the earth. The angel doesn't say so. So where is this said.? I have read Matthew 28.
My, let us say personal, belief is like this. He, Jesus had to comfort the sad disciples through showing them His body as He once was, because they had a weak spiritual faith in Him, being still chocked at His death on the cross. To really believe in Jesus must be to know Him in Spirit, without seeing the body or being aqainted of how He looked like. However, as Jesus was a divine Pedagogue and compassionate, He " showed" them, made them see His body, as it once was, with wounds and all, to comfort them. Of course He could do such a thing. Would that harm our faith in Him? I do not think so. In that vision of the disciples He must have carried a body made up of the unearthly elements of the world beyond. Because flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit. Flesh deteriorates whereas the spirit and its possible veillike form cannot , because it is not compounded by different material elements. It is eternal.
We may leave the disappearance of His body as a mystery, no one knows but that angel who said He had rised from death.... leave it like that, just like it is a mystery how the Holy Virgine could give birth to the babyJesus. We Bahais believe in this mystery. This is my attitude.
The main Message of Jesus Christ however, was to teach us to love God and follow His commandments. Nota bene, to love God when He, Jesus in Person, was not there any more. Because the Spirit rules and is free above the material world. Why try to explain mysteries? If we do, the mystery is no longer a mystery. It becomes a churches' dogma of the priests. And this tradition is ageold.
There is a main MYSTERY that we have to care about. The more I believe , and that is Gods mysterious love, generated through the Holy Spirit bestowed onto His Faithful Messenger like suns radiance, warming our HEARTS, turning us into lovers of mankind, lovers of God and performers of good deeds, making us the wellwishers of mankind.. I'd say,without that quickening of our souls, we would just perish. You agree, don't you?
So, where does it say Jesus went to up through the atmosphere? Even breaking through the ozonlayer. The angel did not.
In fact: No one has seen such a bodily" ascension", I'd say. And we do not know what the angel saw. I'd like to suggest to you this: that Christ came to Gods heaven of the Spirit when He got His CALLING as a Messenger of God. He, really confirmed, came to "the heaven of the love of God."He had been tried in the desert and been found worthy. Was called,And started to preach. Many years later He went up to THAT heaven. And His body dissappeared.
The concept of ascension may ALSO mean that His Teachings of Love were ascended when they , with the spread of His Message of Gods love were accepted by many people. The Teachings got a higher station than it had had in the beginning. It rose to the sky of the hearts and minds of various peoples. This last wordings of mine is for me the most important. I only ask for the quickening of the spirit, On top of all we may enjoy the mysteries of God, performing His miracles. Why not? Would that lessen our love and eagerness to be near Jesus and God, through Him?.
And..SO..when He comes for the second time He comes from that Heaven, = a new Messenger of God having got His CALLING, bearing another NAME comes Rev.3:12,13 to again teach the overall ruling Law of the Love of God.
(When Angels "descend" I'd say they just become visible in front of our eyes, coming from the invisible, where our eyes aren't meant to see anything. Mostly.We just call the invisible realm of the spirit "heaven", that heaven having been misunderstood and mistaken for an earthly one.) Heaven is nothing but spiritual gladness for us human beings, not a geographical place. With that force of spiritual love we will be able to move about in the eternal love of Gods realm.
My question remains to be answered, Will you do that? That my understanding (=my reasoning mind, my intellect) and my soul and my heart can accept it. And ,will you ponder for a while on my possible solutions as for the concept of "heaven".
Bye for now
Laila
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"Earth is but one country and mankind it's citizens" "The source of arts and crafts is the power of reflection" Bahá'u'lláh.1817-1892
Founder of the Bahái'Faith