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Re: Personality Disorders Part 1
2/9/2007 10:51:44 AM

Hi Jo

   I hope you didn't feel slighted by my last reply to you. I really do prefer to have discussions on a more personal level but, at times, as you know, this can be a real challenge. What I hope to have happen when I post a new topic is for people to begin to share their personal thoughts and experiences relating to that topic. I try to be very careful not to present myself as an authority on any particular subject but, as somene who is also curious and trying to learn all I can about it. If people can relate to things from the viewpoint of personal experience there is little room for conflict. Personal experience cannot be debated. It can only be shared.

   The following is an example of the kind of dialogue that I like to see happening in my forums. It is an article from a lady who is sharing her life and experiences as they relate to narcissism. As more and more people are able to relate to anothers experiences, the more likely it becomes that people will find common ground for discussion. Once this begins, we start a journey of learning and sharing that will hopefully help some people find a little more happiness in their lives along the way.

   Here is one lady's story about how narcissism affected her life and the lives of those around her. The link to the rest of her story is at the bottom of the page.

Saturday, January 20, 2007

The Tattered Fabric of My Life

I have ingested a great deal of information and revelation in the past few weeks, thanks to prayer, conversations with Dr. Debbie and this book. It is within my nature to want to figure things out, to sort out and understand "why".

I had dinner with my parents tonight, since the kids are with their dad until tomorrow. My dad said, "Can I ask you something? Why are you back in therapy?"

I responded that I simply wanted to sort it out, to put things in their place, to freely move on and leave the past behind. I want to know "why". He laughed, because they remember my teen years, when my constant refrain was "why?" These days, I'm getting more than I bargained for, in some respects. At any rate, I'm seeing much from a new perspective, and it's blossoming in me. Already, I have discovered a new empathy for my ex-husband - a healthy empathy that allows me to feel some compassion for the challenges he faces, while not feeling a compulsion to fix or heal or help him. I have already gained some measure of freedom.

It is important for me to sort through this, to remember what I am learning and to apply it. I am approaching this season of introspection as a class, a course of study, a time of application that will hopefully end with an acceptable grade and a new knowledge that will help me navigate my future as a woman, as a mother, as a sister and as a daughter. One day, again, as a lover and a wife.

In that light, I'm going to use my blog to sort this out. You'll have to visit elsewhere for cute birdy pics and exciting family events (not that I had any cute birdy pics) (but I'm thinking about getting some). For a while, this is going to be all about me.

Darn that narcississm. There it is again!

What I have learned so far:

  • The odd and indefineable behavior and attitudes of my former husband make perfect sense in light of the qualifications necessary to achieve a diagnosis of a narcississtic personality disorder. In all likelihood, he is masking a wealth of insecurity with behaviors that have distored his relationships and impacted much of his life. This explains why he remains disinterested in the 'nuts and bolts' of parenting (and cautions me that he will probably never be interested in real parenting). It also explains the extreme reaction he has when our marriage was unmasked by my betrayal; the 'narcississtic wound' is deep and irreparable.
  • The history of sexual abuse in his family has contributed greatly to his personality development. The fact that it remains buried and undealt with makes it likely that no help will be forthcoming.
  • Sigh. I have many of the same characteristics, fostered in my personality by a mother who had no sense of her self and did not have the tools to offer unconditional love to me or to my brother. Her insecurity has become an internalized, inner voice in my life, and much of what I do or don't do in my life is tied to a desperate attempt to earn her love, to be 'good enough' and worthy enough for her affection. My narcississtic leanings keep me isolated, insecure, afraid of abandonment and unwilling to risk anything that might reveal my vulnerability.
  • Those characteristics in me led me to seek out my ex as a partner; I identified with him and our marriage, on some level, was an attempt to earn his love, because his attitude and actions aligned somewhat with my mother's. I was drawn to him so I could relive my relationship with my mom, and finally prove that I was 'good enough'. In doing so, I could validate my mom, too, and not be forced to admit that she did not love me well. I still believed I had come from a 'perfect family'.
  • Perfection is very important to me. I am a harsh critic, stemming from my own internal frustration with my lack of perfection. My criticism is internal, because I swore that I would never articulate a critical spirit like my mother constantly did. However, I spend much energy evaluating and judging others, critiquing and catagorizing everyone I meet.
  • I try to see things in black and white, good or bad. Life is not like that, but I insist.
  • Having an affair was my huge, desperate scream. I stripped off all the pretense and declared, in public, that I truly was NOT good enough. I admitted it and gave up. In that humiliation, I found a freedom and I found my SELF. For me, it was the bravest thing I had done - a shame, considering the pain it caused, but very indicative of my narcississtic leaning.
  • Broken open, I was capable of seeing and finding my true self for the first time. My parents unconditionally loved me,

http://lookwhatlovehasdone.blogspot.com/2007/01/tattered-fabric-of-my-life.html

                      
 
May a smile follow you to sleep each night,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
           and be there waiting,,, when you awaken.
 
Sincerly, Bill Vanderbilt
 
Mental Health And Political Forums Respectively
 
Visit the Billallys Pub network at:
 http://pub-network.ryze.com
The following link is to a program that has been highly recommended to me by people that i know and trust. I have been unable to find anything negative about this company.
May a smile follow you to sleep each night and,,,,,be there waiting,,,,,when you awaken http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/8212/ShowForum.aspx Sincerely, Billdaddy
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John Rivera

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Re: Personality Disorders Part 1
2/9/2007 3:39:16 PM

HI BIll

 I saw your reply to JO and I think that it was very apprioate. There are to many fights and arguments going on her at Adland (Not saying JO will cause any) and there is no need to get it going in any situation. I know that what you've posted comes from a good source and I am glad that I found this forum. I will be checking it our more in the future. I have to go in for a 2 disc back fusion on Feb 12 and will be offline for a few days, but I will return.  Good info..Thanks

JR

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Re: Personality Disorders Part 1
2/9/2007 3:55:30 PM

Hello Jr.

    Thanks for stopping by and offering your kind words and thoughts. Yes, you are right about the conflicts. I think a good rule to have regarding posting is that if what you post doesn't help someone other than yourself, don't post it. LOL   Hmmm. People Helping People. What a beautiful thing.

    Now, about that back surgery. Sounds to me like you have spent a long time with terrible pain running down the back of either one or both legs . Kind of an electrical shocking pain caused by the sciatic nerve having been injured or pinched. this is just an educated guess. I had my surgeries in April of 84 and 85. I wish you the best with your surgery Jr. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers and hope for you to have a very quick recovery. things are much different now for this type of surgery. They no longer use and chisel, hammer and a hack saw. LOL  Good luck Jr.

                      
 
May a smile follow you to sleep each night,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
           and be there waiting,,, when you awaken.
 
Sincerly, Bill Vanderbilt
 
Mental Health And Political Forums Respectively
 
Visit the Billallys Pub network at:
 http://pub-network.ryze.com
The following link is to a program that has been highly recommended to me by people that i know and trust. I have been unable to find anything negative about this company.
May a smile follow you to sleep each night and,,,,,be there waiting,,,,,when you awaken http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/8212/ShowForum.aspx Sincerely, Billdaddy
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Re: Personality Disorders Part 1
2/11/2007 12:07:33 PM

Hello Everybody

  Here is an article that I just received from Feedblitz that describes the narcissist in pretty real terms. We all know people like this and I believe that if we learn more about this disorder we will be more likey to get ourselves out from under the spell that they cast on our lives. They are very controlling by nature and most capable of capitalizing on the vulnerabilities of those around them. Take a quick look around yor world right now and see if there is a narcissist at work somewhere in your life. Once you learn to recognize their traits you will begin to see the insecurity that lies at the root of their power and controll over you.

SANCTUARY FOR THE ABUSED" - 1 new article

THE CONTRADICTORY NATURE OF NARCISSISTSEXCERPTS:...



THE CONTRADICTORY NATURE OF NARCISSISTS

EXCERPTS:

NO MATURE CONSCIENCE
Narcissists lack a mature conscience and seem to be restrained only by fear of being punished or of damaging their reputations -- though, again, this can be obscure to casual observation if you don't know what they think their reputations are, and what they believe others think of them may be way out of touch with reality. Their moral intelligence is about at the level of a bright five- or six-year-old; the only rules they recognize are things that have been specifically required, permitted, prohibited, or disapproved of by authority figures they know personally. Anyhow, narcissists can't be counted on not to do something just because it's wrong, illegal, or will hurt someone, as long as they think that they can get away with it or that you can't stop them or punish them (i.e., they don't care what you think unless they're afraid of you) .

ENTITLEMENT
Narcissists feel entitled to whatever they can take. They expect privileges and indulgences, and they also feel entitled to exploit other people without any trace of reciprocation

CASUAL DISHONESTY & CRUELTY
If you're like me, you get into disputes with narcissists over their casual dishonesty and cruelty to other people. Trying to reform narcissists by reasoning with them or by appealing to their better nature is about as effective as spitting in the ocean. What you see is what you get: they have no better nature. The fundamental problem here is that narcissists lack empathy. Lacking empathy is a profound disturbance to the narcissist's thinking (cognition) and feeling (affectivity). Even when very intelligent, narcissists can't reason well. One I've worked with closely does something I characterize as "analysis by eggbeater." They don't understand the meaning of what people say and they don't grasp the meaning of the written word either -- because so much of the meaning of anything we say depends on context and affect, narcissists (lacking empathy and thus lacking both context and affect) hear only the words. (Discussions with narcissists can be really weird and disconcerting; they seem to think that using some of the same words means that they are following a line of conversation or reasoning. Thus, they will go off on tangents and irrelevancies, apparently in the blithe delusion that they understand what others are talking about.) And, frankly, they don't hear all the words, either. They can pay attention only to stuff that has them in it. This is not merely a bad habit -- it's a cognitive deficiency. Narcissists pay attention only to themselves and stuff that affects them personally. However, since they don't know what other people are doing, narcissists can't judge what will affect them personally and seem never to learn that when they cause trouble they will get trouble back. They won't take other people's feelings into consideration and so they overlook the fact that other people will react with feeling when abused or exploited and that most people get really pissed off by being lied to or lied about.

CONTRADICTORY
The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it -- really, how could you think they'd ever have said that? You need to have your head examined! They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy. [At this point, if you're like me, you sort of panic and want to talk to anyone who will listen about what is going on: this is a healthy reaction; it's a reality check ("who's the crazy one here?"); that you're confused by the narcissist's contrariness, that you turn to another person to help you keep your bearings, that you know something is seriously wrong and worry that it might be you are all signs that you are not a narcissist].

NOTE: Normal people can behave irrationally under emotional stress -- be confused, deny things they know, get sort of paranoid, want to be babied when they're in pain. But normal people recover pretty much within an hour or two or a day or two, and, with normal people, your expressions of love and concern for their welfare will be taken to heart. They will be stabilized by your emotional and moral support. Not so with narcissists -- the surest way I know of to get a crushing blow to your heart is to tell a narcissist you love her or him. They will respond with a nasty power move, such as telling you to do things entirely their way or else be banished from them for ever.

THEIR RELIGIOUSNESS
Narcissists I've known also have odd religious ideas, in particular believing that they are God's special favorites somehow; God loves them, so they are exempted from ordinary rules and obligations: God loves them and wants them to be the way they are, so they can do anything they feel like -- though, note, the narcissist's God has much harsher rules for everyone else, including you. [Many readers have questions about narcissism and religion.

Here is an interesting article on the Web: "Narcissism Goes to Church: Encountering Evangelical Worship" by Monte Wilson. An excerpt:

"Modern American Christianity is filled with the spirit of narcissism. We are in love with ourselves and evaluate churches, minist,ers and truth-claims based upon how they make us feel about ourselves. If the church makes me feel wanted, it is a good church. If the minister makes me feel good about myself, he is a terrific guy. If the proffered truth supports my self-esteem, it is, thereby, verified."]

READ MORE HERE

 
                      
 
May a smile follow you to sleep each night,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
           and be there waiting,,, when you awaken.
 
Sincerly, Bill Vanderbilt
 
Mental Health And Political Forums Respectively
 
Visit the Billallys Pub network at:
 http://pub-network.ryze.com
The following link is to a program that has been highly recommended to me by people that i know and trust. I have been unable to find anything negative about this company.


 


 

May a smile follow you to sleep each night and,,,,,be there waiting,,,,,when you awaken http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/8212/ShowForum.aspx Sincerely, Billdaddy
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Deborah Skovron

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Re: Personality Disorders Part 1
2/13/2007 3:37:28 PM

Hi William,

    You have given a very detailed overview of narcissism.

I think you are wise to use reliable sources for your information and not try to come off as an authority. That way people can go to your references if they need more information on the subject.

Your forums are always very well thought out and are filled with useful information.

I think your forums are a plus here in the community.

Thank you, William for all that you do.

Your Good Friend

Deborah

BrandName Kidswear starting at $2.65. http://debs-kids.com 12 Page Book thats creating miracles...FREE http://www.debs-kids.com/star-thrower.pdf Where Money Grows Like Kids
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