I have been a fool to myself in even trying to debate with someone who has such entrenched views.

Not a bad crop of invective Neil, which I will only say that lucky old you having all the great stuff to live by.  I am sure you are a very happy man to have such a wonderful life. Obviously you also attended the George W. Bush Charm School, and good luck to you.

For me, I think you have finally convinced me that I am wasting my time here.  I wonder how many other Europeans have felt the same?

Good bye America!

NORM: "How am I clueless about Iraq when I asked a question - and did not make a statement? I asked if I had missed Saddam Hussein declaring war on the USA, as this is what was directly implied/stated by President Bush last week in a Press Conference shown live on TV. He said 'We didn't ask for this war......' - and my question was ' then who did, as I do not recall anyone else asking for it'." ------------------------------------ Neil: COME ON NORM! SADDAM ASKED FOR THE WAR! HE ASKED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR TWELVE YEARS! Your question PROVED you are clueless on Iraq as anyone who is actually knowledgeable about Iraq KNOWS it was THEIR ACTIONS, THEIR ACTS OF WAR TOWARD THE U.S. and BRITAIN which caused the war! Here NORM, Try using a little common sense and logic. Say there is this child predator, who had been put in jail, who received many warnings to stay away from children and has been told that unless he leaves the county, he will be put in jail. If he does not stay away from children and he does not leave the county, he has ASKED TO BE PUT IN JAIL! Saddam was defeated once, warned over 7 over & over & over again (17 times) for over twelve years to comply, he was them told he & his two Psycho sons had to leave Iraq OR we would remove him. HE DID NOT COMPLY! Thus, HE ASKED US TO GO TO WAR WITH HIM! And AGAIN, for the UMPTHEEN TIME, SOME of the reasons our war in Iraq are fully justified are in my forum on Iraq. So instead of your asking a clueless question, had you spent the time reading what I have posted, OR if you knew as much about Iraq as you thought you did, you never would have asked the question in the first place. (Unless of course, you are one of those like the anti-evolutionists who DENY facts proving them wrong OR you are one of those who are just too, less than intelligent, to be able to comprehend the facts.) AGAIN, HERE ARE JUST SOME OF THE REASONS OUR WAR IN IRAQ IS FULLY JUSTIFIED AND A NECESSARY PART OF OUR WAR ON TERROR! http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/thread/388286.aspx ----------------------------------- NORM: "I'm also still puzzling over the point made in parenthesis - i.e 'living in the country he does, I guess one can understand why' Can you elucidate?" ----------------------------------- NEIL: YEP! ------------------------------ NORM: I am thinking it has something to do with Clinton's sexual exploits? ---------------------------- NEIL: NOPE! The programmed religious robots of the far right were the IDIOTS who were all hung up with Clinton's sexual exploits. This caused our brain dead media, which LOVES to cover anything which puts our Presidents and/or our county in a bad light, to make a big thing out of Clinton's sex life. Too bad you people over there are so clueless about our media not to know that. Then you would quit all this BULL SHIT about the American Media NOT reporting negative things about the US. My comment about the country where you live has to do with how much (A LOT) MANY, MANY of we Americans HATE FRANCE! As far as I am concerned, very little about France other than their "Foreign Legion" is worth liking. (And most people in it are not French.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HEY LEONARD, FYI Like it or not, natural or normal or average is what over fifty percent of a given population does. So, Monogamy is UN-NATURAL! Five percent (or less) of ALL animals, birds, mammals, etc. are monogamous. And a survey of over 600 different human cultures found only 20% of them said they were a monogamous culture. And, THEY LIE! The US is SUPPOSED to be a monogamous culture and yet over 50% of all couples have at least one member who is not. Next, nearly ALL Highly Successful men have an ABOVE AVERAGE sex drive and many of them are highly sexed. So don't give me all this "Womanizing" stuff. It is NORMAL and NATURAL! And just because ONE religion, out of thousands of religions, a religion whose rules were written by a bunch of fairly (by todays standards) IGNORANT men running around the Middle East OVER 2,000 years ago, says it is wrong does NOT make it wrong! And YOUR religion has NO RIGHT to force or even attempt to force others to live by the rules of YOUR religion. The Moslems, Hindus and other religions do not have that right & neither do the Christians!. RELIGION = MYTH INFORMATION -------- Neil

Views which are substantiated by Facts SHOULD BE entrenched. If you want someone to UN-entrench their views, it is VERY simple to do, just PROVE THEM WRONG! Only it seems you do not want to to that, (most probably because you can not.) nope, you just want to be sarcastic. And as far what you said about Europe, I could care less what the majority of them think. I know there are people there who agree with the US because they have told me so or have written articles so stating. Last, face it, where would MOST people in the world move to it they could? Why, it is still, and as it has been for at least a hundred years, the US! TaTa France!

Neil,

People form opinions based on information they have gathered, whether that information be fact or fiction. If someone has formulated an opinion based on misinformation, it does not mean they are ignorant, clueless, or lying. It means that they have been misinformed. Perhaps you should revisit my post about reality and perception.

Again, people form opinions based on the information [facts] as they perceive them. That is their reality. Just because they perceive information differently than you do does not make them ignorant or wrong.

For example: It is my opinion, based on the information that I have gathered, that our area needs a mill levy increase to support higher salaries for our teachers. However, that is not an opinion that is shared by everyone in my community. Even though the facts support my opinion, it is still just my perception of those facts, and while others may not agree with it, it doesn't make either side wrong.

That is why we have the right to vote on such matters; because not everyone perceives the facts in the same way. Just because I think I am right does not necessarily make it so, and vice versa.

You have your opinions and I have mine. We perceive the same situation differently, but that does not give you the right to call me ignorant or clueless.

And, for the second time, my name is NOT Tina.

Trina

Hello Norm,

Usualy I do not post in this kind of debates, but this time I'll make an exception because I have a few corrections and questions!

First of all Leonard was not quoting a comment but an entire article! Most of it Cornel Nistorescu is one of our most apreciated political commentator and not only here! I think they are corupted too!

I'm sorry you were so bored while living in a so pure country as Hungary for several years; but it would have been better to find some time and learn something about the region instead of getting bored! I think you were lucky to hear accidentaly about some debates between ROMANIA and Hungary, else you wouldn't know where it is and you would have been one of those with shaky Geography!

Rumania is probably one of the most corrupt countries in the world... Hm!

Yes, unfortunately here is more coruption than we would like, but it's improving highly and is far from being "the most...!" Please do not launch some speculations just to find some arguments, what ever the price!

...in fact it was Fascist for a long time until the USSR stepped in

Lucky we, the USSR saved us! I would better say YOU, the alied forces sold us for your saving! If about 2 years is a long time, than we were Fascists for a looong time;

And mow one of the most fals statement of yours, having not even a "breath" of truth in it:

.....and is ruled in an almost Fascist manner !

I'm not a history fun, but I think everyone would agree with me if I say that it is a very interesting and original Fascism as we changed some presidents and government parties by democratic elections?! - this is very fascist indeed! - I think this is why you said almost!

I think it has no use to go further with the other things you stated regarding ROMANIA! But I wonder why all the FRANCOPHONE countries decided to have their SOMMET exactly in this "almost" fascist country!

I wanted to write more, but I decided to stop here, because my purpos is not to offend anyone; the only thing I want is to warn you that things are not as they are showed to be! You have to see for your self!

With respect,
Anamaria