Hi Linda, Glad you like the title! lol. Yes, you're right, unfortunately. There are a lot of "older generation" people who spend their lives being victims, too, and who amaze me only by their ability to survive with such a rotten attitude. Those who prefer to live as victims generally live without: a decent income a decent retirement joy love peace fulfillment ... and the list goes on and on. That's not what I call living; it's what I call a long, boring, miserable existence, waiting for the grave. Ugh! God bless, Dave

Hi Shannon, As usual, you've hit it bang on. We are seeing a very dangerous generation growing up around us today, and it can be attributed mainly to the generation who, as you say, left their kids to everyone but the kid's parents to raise. In most western public schools now, more emphasis is placed on self esteem, rather than on responsible learning, and kids are not getting the PARENTS esteem that they need. Our society has forgotten that "esteem" means "value." If it's left up to the untrained individual to value themselves with no example of how to value themselves or anyone else, for that matter, their values get completely messed up, and yes, some of them start shooting. It's no surprise. Add to that the fact that society teaches them that it's not their fault (in other words - it's not their responsibility), and you end up with dangerous, self-centered kids and young adults that CAN'T be reformed. I recall commenting to my wife one day as we were out for a drive and saw a typical highschool senior standing by the road that we're on the way to having the highest unemployment levels in our history soon if we don't start teaching our kids to FIT into society, work hard, and take responsibility, as we're going to have a whole generation of UNemployable youth soon. What intelligent business person would hire a self-centered, irresponsible, unkempt, dangerous, whiny slob with no work ethics of any kind? Not me, that's for sure! What a world we live in... God bless, Dave

Hey Dave; ========================================= We are seeing a very dangerous generation growing up around us today, and it can be attributed mainly to the generation who, as you say, left their kids to everyone but the kid's parents to raise. ========================================= I don't know that I agree. Some parents can work a job and still raise their kids to be decent human beings, while others are such lousy parents that even staying home full time wouldn't help them parent any better. In most cases, lousy parents had lousy parents, and their parents' parents were lousy parents, too. Don't slam the door. Don't hit your brother. No, you can't have that. No, you can't go there. No, you can't do that. No, no, no. Don't, don't don't. Can't, can't can't. Negative, negative, negative. That's what MY father did, and if it's good enough for me, it's good enough for you. When I was your age if I didn't.... Bad behaviour gets a 30 minute diatribe while good behaviour gets an absent minded pat on the head like a performing dog. Shut up. Sit down. Do what you're told. Don't you question me. Why? BECAUSE I SAID SO. THAT'S WHY. Might makes right. Reasons don't exist. Explanations don't exist. Teaching doesn't exist. I don't know that it's *not* parenting as much as not knowing HOW to parent in the first place. We need to pass a test to prove we are capable of driving a car... but there are no skills required to raise human beings. Go figure. ========================================= In most western public schools now, more emphasis is placed on self esteem, rather than on responsible learning... ========================================= When my daughter was growing up, I used to tell her that self esteem something you get from what you do. Sit around on your butt, you won't have self esteem. You haven't earned it. DO something worth feeling good about, and lo and behold - Voila! - self esteem! A lot of stupid stuff comes out of schools. ...it's hard on self esteem to repeat a grade, so everyone passes. ...it's not good for morale to be the last kid chosen on a team, so teams are chosen by drawing names. None of that trash bears any similarity to real life. Kids who know different are the ones that were taught different at home. For the rest -- it's easier to just blame the schools. lol. : ) Linda P.S. By the way.... arewebitchen? lol

Ah, Linda, now you've hit my hot button. I've always said that kids don't come with user's manuals, and many of us shouldn't have had any. I was raised by very loving parents who did it the way you're describing, and not knowing any better at the time, I raised mine the same way. This post could get very long, but the bottom line is just what Dave started with in the first place. Everyone is responsible for his or her own choices in life. They can choose to be miserable, blame others and get more of the same for their trouble. They can also choose to change their circumstances and never look back. Just like the young men in your story. Cheri PS, Gary, that motorhome story is a hoax, as is the one about the burglar. http://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/hoaxes/hoaxDetails.asp?HName=Stella+Awards+Hoax But there are plenty of others like it that aren't. I recall seeing something about a man suing the New York City police department for injuries he sustained jumping onto the subway tracks while fleeing police after some crime. He won.

Great forum Dave, I agree that there are way too many frivolous lawsuits. Why do jury members go along with them??? We know why lawyers do, lol. To some extent, common sense is something a person either seems to be born with or not. From my experience of working with a lot of co-workers in the mental health system and knowing a lot of patients as well, anyone in either category can have or lack common sense. Siblings can differ in those respects too even though they were raised by the same parents. I have worked with some young adults who have common sense and values that are evident in their work and in the way they raise their children, so it is not all of the modern generation that lacks these traits.(thank goodness). These were working mothers who managed to instill values in their children. As someone mentioned, some stay-at-home moms don't seem to do any better in raising their children than moms who work full-time. I guess we can't generalize. DonnaZ