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Helen 801 1370 Burnaby	RE: Mary Evelyn's Koffee Klatch 2/2/2012 11:59:14 AM
	Hello Evelyn When I used the term "old codger" perhaps I should have been speaking for myself. :)) Also I want to clarify that I was speaking about the population of our respective countries in general and not just those on this forum. Also I don't know what your stance on the Occupiers is so the following is not directed at you personally. Perhaps you will share your views sometime. I am sure you have a view that would help us to see something we are not now seeing. It's true that through the internet we have learned much ...some true information, a lot of lies and some we cannot tell if it is true or not. But there was lots we could have done long before the internet and we did nothing ...I am ashamed to say that I was one who did very little except complain. During WW2, taxes were introduced and we were told it was a temporary measure 'for the war effort'. Taxes were to stop after the war. They continued and as far as I know and saw, noone did a thing about it. I was a child at the time. Oh yes, they complained ...even bitterly but they never wrote one letter. What is the use of talking about it amongst ourselves and not taking some kind of action? We didn't need taxes after the war. People even today say, "Well, what about building roads and such?" Before there were taxes, there were roads. They would have found a way to do these things but sucking us dry was much easier since we didn't even complain to them about it. In Canada, before the internet, our Prime Minister at the time, was so hated that his party was able only to elect a few seats in the following election and he wasn't even running. His name was Brian Mulroney. This man before he left office, put 650 of his friends into government positions and if there were no openings for them, he made new positions which meant more money spent that we the taxpayers had to pay. This man did so many things like this that he should have been put in jail!! Yet, even though we were outraged, we did nothing. And just as many had their heads in the sand and didn't even know what this man did. Even today, we see this man and his family lauded in prestigious magazines. He should not be given the time of day! Corruption like this is happening in the US and around the world. It has gotten so out of hand that we should be considering taking our guns to government buildings and cleaning out everyone in them. Americans need to remember that what their government does, in most cases affects the whole world because of its sheer size. Most countries have 50% of the workforce now working in government. The other 50% are paying their wages and we can't even tell them what to do. If you are earning $50,000 a year, I will guess that about $15,000 to $20,000 goes to income tax. Wouldn't you like to have that money in your bank account. On another note, I remember one election year in the 70's telling someone, "I feel like we can vote for this communist or that communist." Way back then I was feeling the squeeze on our freedoms. It must have been true for others as well. There was plenty of evidence of things going wrong in the 40's, 50's, 60's and onward. One of those things was the debt. The debt our respective countries now have did not happen over night. It began in the 50's and 60's and we said nothing then. Then it got bigger in the 70's and 80's and we still said nothing. We didn't know that these debts were created so that the rich would collect the interest but the fact that the government was spending like a lunatic was evident. Who dreamt we would have the debt we now have and everyone is still more or less silent except for the Occupiers. I believe our governments are being forced to increase the debt by the people who stand to gain the interest from the debt. With the kind of money that comes into government, it should be possible not to incur further debt. Simply don't spend for a year or two, save the money, and then pay cash. What is wrong with that? We knew these things before the internet. Look at the increase in the debt incurred just since Obama has been in power!! He's spending like a wild man. Do you think he doesn't know what he is doing? I swear his mission is to bring the United States down so it will be easier for the Muslims to take it over. Someone just sent me this gem today > > "There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword.. The other is by debt." John Adams 1826 I could go on and on and on about things that happened that we should have nipped in the bud (before the internet) while it was still small. We should have risen up then. And we are complaining about the Occupiers?? We ought to be ashamed of ourselves. We need to support them, not malign them just because a few step out of line. We should be outraged because of the way the police are treating some of them and we need to do something even if it is just making a phone call or writing a postcard or sending an email ...the more the better. This post is not directed at you, Evelyn or anyone in particular. It just make me angry that these people in government and in the big mega corporations are getting away with everything they do. One more example... when the banks got themselves in trouble, they were bailed out by the government. It was your money they gave to these vultures. The first thing the CEO's did was to pay themselves their handsome salary but that was not enough. Oh no, they also gave themselves HUGE bonuses. When I was working, bonuses were given for a job well done. If you didn't do a good job, you got no bonus. These people did a lousy job and were actually stealing this money. Again no one said much about it. How sickening is that? Now the Occupiers are saying something and all we can do is complain????? Even in Canada we paid bail out money to our banks and this was done when they were showing handsome profits and there was no need for them to have a 'bailout'. Did we do anything? Nope! Just the Occupiers did and are doing something. Helen Quote: Hello friends, instead of replying to everyone individually, I'm going to talk to each of you in this one post. And now for my good friend Helen, who has brought much joy to us here in this thread. I guess I'm included in the "old codger" group but I want to ask you something. It has only been in the last few years that we "old codgers" have learned of much of what has been transpiring in the political world, or at least that has been the case in my situation. Thanks to the Internet, we now know that we've been lied to and mislead by the MSM and our government, so how were most of us to know we should be calling or writing our representatives about something we knew nothing about? The MSM not only didn't bring us the true facts but they twisted things around to where they have an entirely different meaning and they shield a lot of the politicians in their wrong doing, but politically massacre those who they think will cast them in a well deserved bad light. As most of you know, I am very opinionated and I make no excuses about believing the way I do on certain issues and I hold no ill will against anyone who has a different opinion than mine.
	Spend $4 and get back $10 every time you spend. Contact me (Helen) at this email »»» zhebee@yahoo.com
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Amanda 2190 2587 Lexington	RE: Mary Evelyn's Koffee Klatch 2/2/2012 2:29:22 PM
	Hi Helen and friends, This video goes along with what you are saying to quite an extent. I have seen this before quite a few months ago and was shocked and was one of motivations for me to start searching and how I woke up to what was happening in our various countries. It is nearly 2 hours long but I reckon well worth watching America: Freedom to Fascism is a 2006 film by Aaron Russo, which alleges among a variety of claims that income tax is illegal. The documentary covers many subjects, including: the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the income tax, Federal Reserve System, national ID cards (REAL ID Act), human-implanted RFID tags (Spychips), Diebold electronic voting machines, globalization, Big Brother, taser weapons abuse, and the alleged use of terrorism by government as a means to diminish the citizens' rights. The Film Determined to find the law that requires American citizens to pay income tax, producer Aaron Russo set out on a journey to find the evidence. This film which is neither left, nor right-wing is a startling examination of government. It exposes the systematic erosion of civil liberties in America since 1913 when the Federal Reserve system was fraudulently created. Amanda

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Mary Evelyn 23244 5352 Strawb...	RE: Mary Evelyn's Koffee Klatch 2/2/2012 3:31:53 PM
	Yes Amanda, we can agree to disagree. I have no problem with that but there are so many issues we do not see eye to eye on and to be perfectly honest, I don't see that changing. As far as this Occupy movement is concerned, I see it totally different than some of you and I don't see my opinion changing. From the start, I've never thought it was a good idea and from the things I've seen and read since makes me more convinced that I am right. Others can form their own opinion or opinions as that is their right to do so. :) Quote: Evelyn, Thank you for your honesty as it means so much to me. I have to confess, in this forum I have not been as honest with you. As I should have trusted that you can accept differences of opinions. I have lied by omission because I did not want to disagree and have dissension within the forum. For this I apologize, we can agree to disagree and still be great friends. Amanda

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Mary Evelyn 23244 5352 Strawb...	RE: Mary Evelyn's Koffee Klatch 2/2/2012 3:49:06 PM
	Helen, I wasn't offended by the term "old codger". As a matter of fact I found it quite humorous and as for my stance on the Occupiers it is plain to see we have an entirely different view point. I've followed this issue from the beginning and I've seen nothing to change my opinion, but frankly, just the opposite. I've already shared my views in other forums. Quote: Hello Evelyn When I used the term "old codger" perhaps I should have been speaking for myself. :)) Also I want to clarify that I was speaking about the population of our respective countries in general and not just those on this forum. Also I don't know what your stance on the Occupiers is so the following is not directed at you personally. Perhaps you will share your views sometime. I am sure you have a view that would help us to see something we are not now seeing.

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Helen 801 1370 Burnaby	RE: Mary Evelyn's Koffee Klatch 2/2/2012 9:08:11 PM
	Great! Now I am going to post something on the lighter side. Watch for my next video :)) Quote: Helen, I wasn't offended by the term "old codger". As a matter of fact I found it quite humorous and as for my stance on the Occupiers it is plain to see we have an entirely different view point. I've followed this issue from the beginning and I've seen nothing to change my opinion, but frankly, just the opposite. I've already shared my views in other forums. Quote: Hello Evelyn When I used the term "old codger" perhaps I should have been speaking for myself. :)) Also I want to clarify that I was speaking about the population of our respective countries in general and not just those on this forum. Also I don't know what your stance on the Occupiers is so the following is not directed at you personally. Perhaps you will share your views sometime. I am sure you have a view that would help us to see something we are not now seeing.
	Spend $4 and get back $10 every time you spend. Contact me (Helen) at this email »»» zhebee@yahoo.com
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