Your words do that quite nicely, Judy. I need not help you to prove my point.

Which is we do not need the State and its Social Engineers. You say the following. We definitely disagree. But instead of leaving it at that you wish to portend that I am fulminating about you. Typical Progressive Liberal comeback. In an attempt to shut down conversations. Playing the victim card just proves my point.

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Yes Jim I do.

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That explains a lot about you Judy. Quite sad that you would thrust your personal responsibility to your children onto the state which wants to enslave us even more. Very sad indeed.

That was not what I said I wanted Jim. I said that parents were not sufficiently knowledgeable to decide what is suitable reading or viewing material for children and grandchildren in this day and age. I also said that I welcomed some controls on that matter from censors in my country. I did not say that I wished to delegate ALL RESPONSIBLITY to the state.

Perhaps you can answer my questions or "Carry on Fulminating" about me elsewhere. Plenty of forums welcome personal attacks on me.

1) Should sixteen to eighteen year olds be taught how to make methy_isocyanate? Would you withdraw a child of yours from chemistry lessons for fear of him or her acquiring that extremely dangerous knowledge?

2) Would you try to prevent a child of yours from becoming an Ancient Greek or Latin scholar for fear that he or she might learn about sexual excesses and deviations with all the graphic illustrations that were practiced by The Ceasars or Greeks? This material has been censored in most English speaking countries but it is still available to Greek and Latin scholars.

3) Does your objection to bad language extend to language which sounds beautiful when the words are sung as opposed to being spoken? I have no objection to foul language sung in a mix of Ancient German and Latin. I bet loads of Adlanders love the words and music of some of the most profane and sexually explicit language ever written. Do you object to your children listening to Carl Orf's Carmina Burana?

4) Some bad language that was banned in our home when I was married were the words. "You spiteful whoresome vuddick". A lodger of ours who turned out to be a big time art thief used a sibilant tone of voice to utter those words to one of our cats who had taken an instant dislike to him and the words terrified her. I think that the American censors may have stepped in and removed the word vuddic or vuddict (not sure of the spelling) from Google. Last time I Googled it, it was described as a word which was associated with the occult and black arts. Should language like that be censored?

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1) Should sixteen to eighteen year olds be taught how to make methy_isocyanate? Would you withdraw a child of yours from chemistry lessons for fear of him or her acquiring that extremely dangerous knowledge?

2) Would you try to prevent a child of yours from becoming an Ancient Greek or Latin scholar for fear that he or she might learn about sexual excesses and deviations with all the graphic illustrations that were practiced by The Caesars or Greeks? This material has been censored in most English speaking countries but it is still available to Greek and Latin scholars.

3) Does your objection to bad language extend to language which sounds beautiful when the words are sung as opposed to being spoken? I have no objection to foul language sung in a mix of Ancient German and Latin. I bet loads of Adlanders love the words and music of some of the most profane and sexually explicit language ever written. Do you object to your children listening to Carl Orf's Carmina Burana?

4) Some bad language that was banned in our home when I was married were the words. "You spiteful whoresome vuddick". A lodger of ours who turned out to be a big time art thief used a sibilant tone of voice to utter those words to one of our cats who had taken an instant dislike to him and the words terrified her. I think that the American censors may have stepped in and removed the word vuddic or vuddict (not sure of the spelling) from Google. Last time I Googled it, it was described as a word which was associated with the occult and black arts. Should language like that be censored?

Hi Judy,
I had to look up your first question, I never did chemistry and I certainly confess I do not know much about the ingredients/compounds etc used to cook up - here is what I found on Wikipedia

Methyl isocyanate (MIC) is an organic compound with the molecular formula C₂H₃NO, arranged as H₃C-N=C=O. Synonyms are isocyanatomethane, methyl carbylamine, and MIC. Methyl isocyanate is an intermediate chemical in the production of carbamatepesticides (such as carbaryl, carbofuran, methomyl, and aldicarb). It has also been used in the production of rubbers and adhesives. As a highly toxic and irritating material, it is hazardous to human health, and was involved in the Bhopal disaster which killed nearly 8,000 people initially and approximately 17,000 people in total

(even the spell checker did not know what to do with those words *lol*)

I would not like my 16 year old learning how to cook up this batch without very knowledgeable teacher and with a small group. It would have to be for a very good reason why they wanted to make it too. So communication with our children is vital to find out what is going on at school - this is a parent responsibility and is ongoing right from early age of their child.
My stipulation of a small group is from experience as I know that kids want to get their 'hands dirty and start right in' more often than not, not waiting to hear all the instructions first.

2. No, my child wanted to be Ancient Greek / Latin Scholar they could do this. I would never stand in the way as we have Free Will. - This also comes under the heading of communication with our children, as parents we should have been talking about sex, porno pictures, graphics, etc etc.

3. I do reckon I understand where you are coming from - not being an Opera fan my knowledge is limited especially when they are singing in other languages. Yes they could be swearing for all I know.
There are many examples I could use here that I believe is bad for children, yet to other people they see no harm. Especially many of the nursery rhymes that were made up from past history and events. e.g. Ring a ring a rosy is about the bubonic plague. The Smurfs - with their blue faces and black lips is the colour European people go when they die. There is only one female smurf - Smurfette all the others are males!

Yes, I do agree there should be responsibility placed on Everyone for their role in everyone of our lives. We have a responsibility to ourselves to be as informed as we can be and to inform others what we know and have learned. This should be verbal, written, and general conversation with our friends and neighbours too - yet I know many people keep what they know all to themselves for their own selfish reasons. Money, power, profit, greed etc

Amanda

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I would not like my 16 year old learning how to cook up this batch without very knowledgeable teacher and with a small group. It would have to be for a very good reason why they wanted to make it too. So communication with our children is vital to find out what is going on at school - this is a parent responsibility and is ongoing right from early age of their child.
Amanda

You have hit the nail on the head Amanda. I will not forget the smell/taste of this substance till the day I die. We were taught to taste it for a good reason and (on reflection) I think that knowledge was valuable. My heart bleeds for those people in Bhopal who have to live with the smell/taste years after the disaster. There are still traces in their water supply and in the food chain.

I can't describe the smell but you want to vomit it up but can't. We smelled a tiny whif of it prepared in a fume cupboard and that was enough for me. The chemical company that let it escape have not cleared the mess up or compensated residents of Bhopal which is diabolical. The manafacturers know what misery they inflicted on those people. Perhaps somebody from India can tell us more and we can petition the company (Union Carbide I think) to do more for the victims.

Hi Judy
I agree The Dow Chemical Company is disgraceful and low for just walking off and not taking responsibility.
Here is a paragraph I was just reading, this link

Union Carbide, which these days is wholly owned by The Dow Chemical Company, refuses to clean its factory, or to compensate those it has poisoned. The ‘Polluter Pays’ principle applies in India as in the United States, but Dow, whose managers sit on Carbide’s board, says it has no power to make Union Carbide clean up its mess, or appear in the Bhopal court where it faces serious criminal charges and whose summons it has since 1992 been refusing to obey.

There is the rub... How does anyone enforce companies, schools etc etc to obey their conscious and do what is right by the general public? Laws are not always going to work because 'high powered shrewd lawyers' can manage to find loop holes within the laws to argue over and get the guilty party off. That is the lawyers job to give the best counsel - doesn't make it right, yet each person has the same level of legal counsel if you can afford the best lawyers..

New laws are being made all the time to cover over these laws the lawyers have found with the loop holes.

I still believe it up to each person to be responsible as we can possibly be, communicate and be open to listen, read, learn and ask questions.

Amanda

Jim, Judy and others.

A few hours of a VERY hectic weekend left. Time for a few replies.

I really believe that state intervention in our TV viewing or films is not desireable but the problem is not the fact that the state is not to be trusted but that the system of election is flawed.

There is no such thing as the perfect electoral system but what I'm saying is this. World-wide we need governments that REPRESENT what we, as people,want, need or demand. The trouble with any system of that type is that the strongest always win, therefore NO PERFECT SYSTEM. I believe that a public body, drawn at random from the population should undertake the task of SUGGESTING what is or isn't acceptable etc. The negative aspect is that, once again, this could be manipulated.

Education is really the only answer but there are always those who are not intelligent enough to make decisions based upon all the facts etc.

What are your suggestions for a system that offers guidance to those who have charge of the vulnerable.

Roger

Hi Roger,

I understand you and agree, it would be great if writers/authors/directors etc would listen to their conscience and put a description on their content (books, movies, tv series etc) and whether it has brutal mind games (Saw series) violence, obscene language, sexual content. I will not watch anything like Saw, Silence of the Lambs (I often follow Anthony Hopkins as he is such a great actor) and their sequels as they were far too disturbing for me, because of the Mental games. Yet I like action drama.

I hear you World-wide we need governments that REPRESENT what we, as people,want, need or demand...
I believe that a public body, drawn at random from the population should undertake the task of SUGGESTING what is or isn't acceptable etc. The negative aspect is that, once again, this could be manipulated.
If this Public body drawn and random - similar to Jury Duty? Although I think you would have to select these random people over a cross section of age, geographical areas, viewing preference, reading preference, etc to get a wider circle of views to vote on. The other downside could be.. would we get a 'hung jury' if enough couldn't agree, which could spend more money to get a new Jury.

However, it would seem that it is not in anyone of the people whom have Jurisdiction over getting their product out to the public viewing, care about impressionable children who want to go or 'sneak in' and watch. As long as the money rolls in from the millions of viewers is all they worry about. Money, greed and power is top of their list.

Money, greed and power is on top of who gets selected and their motivation for being elected.

You mention "Education is really the only answer but there are always those who are not intelligent enough to make decisions based upon all the facts etc."
I agree, however the public are not getting 'all the facts' to make intelligent decisions because we would know what is happening in a huge volume of people and make 'intelligent decisions' to overthrow them.

The main stream media does not help over here in the States, they are biased to whomever are paying their salaries because many Stations are owned by huge corporations and not by the Stations themselves whereby they could broadcast unbiasedly the news as they receive it without prejudice.

Amanda