Hi Ally, Thank you for your post... and yet more insight into who you are and where you have come from...you truely are an inspiration! Alot of the things that you have talked about overcoming, I am still working on at my young age...lol! It is very hard. But with people such as yourself sharing their "experience, strength and hope" I am sure my personal defects will eventually be history! Keeping that sense of humor is most important, I agree! There is nothing like a good belly laugh to bring us out of a hole! Not talking about myself other than surface stuff, is a real problem for me...it is only in this forum have I opened up even a little and that has been mostly about what goes on with my struggle with my son and his issues. The h*ll of it is...I have so much buried I have most likely created a mental illness in myself for not talking about things. What really sent me back down into a spiral, is when I went to counciling and my therapist told me that I was simply too intense and if I would just "take a pill" and get my mind straight, maybe I/she could deal with me. Well, I am still at the point where...the medications are great for someone else, especially in my son's case, because I can see what it does for him....but what my therapist perseves as "intense" I call "passion" and I don't think they make a pill for that! She actually told me we couldn't move on unless I medicated! I almost felt betrayed. Until I figured out it was really her ineffective counciling that wanted me on meds. I became very angry about it. I went to her for...mainly someone just to talk to...and now she doesn't want to even talk unless I am medicated! Wuz up wi' that? Now back to square one. Oooops, there I go, rappin' about me...time to go... Keep up the good work my dear! And I too, am always here for you. Lots of Love and Peace, Julia

And you too, Bill, are ALWAYS an inspiration to me! And yes, yes! All of what you say makes total sense! I constantly struggle with the self worth thinggy. Feeling guilty for feeling happy? My, my, right up my alley! I figured it out to a point...I have had a life that no one would ever believe. It has been suggested several times I should write a book. I have always been the fighter in everyone else's lives...never my own. I have been too busy trying to help everyone around me get well, I have not ever taken the time (or didn't know how to take the time) to fix myself. I realized this just recently, when all of a sudden I became engulfed with my husband's health issues, Jeff's mental illness, my other son's problems (which are a topic for someplace else) and my aging father...there has never been any time for me. If I took anytime for me...the old guilt crept in and I couldn't live with it. In fact, I don't even know who I am and I am not sure I ever really have. I have been married since I was 18...not to the same person, but to two before this...and I usually picked the person who had the most problems because I just knew it was my job to fix everything...I had a mind set that love conquers all. Now, I am finally realizing, how could I have ever thought something so shallow? Without experience, no one can help anyone...I am feeling my time is giving out and there's not much time left for me. This is not a selfish feeling, just a self realization...and it is not too easy for me to look at, since I am not used to looking at myself...In fact, it horrifies me that I have landed in such a place as I live today. I have done nothing for my own growth, have stifled it and put it on the shelf for all around me and I am now kinda lost. Okay, enough of that....what I really wanted to say, is, yes, I believe kind words are always necessary! We all need hugs! You are being way too modest! I have told you in the past...you have helped me and your forums are helping more than you will ever know, and I am sure that I am not the only one that feels this way. You have been growing and I want to grow too...and I think I am in the right place to do that! Thank you Bill, for being my friend! Love and Peace, Julia

Hello Julia I have considered you as my friend ever since the very first time we spoke. We do have quite a bit in common and I really enjoy talking with you. You know, the main problem that you talk about, always finding time to care for others but never for yourself, is perhaps one of the most common problems we face in life. Although our situations differ and our circumstances vary, we still make up 1/2 of about 80% of all relationships. We are caretakers. Caretakers cannot be happy unless they have someone to care for. The other half of these relationships consist of people who cannot find self worth unless they can convince someone that they need to be cared for. One feels that they are good because they care for others. The other feels they must be good or no one would care for them. Lets call them the care needer and the care giver. If by chance the care needer developes their own sense of self worth and no longer needs the care giver to take care of them, the care giver will often times move on to another relationship. They feel unappreciated. They have no sense of self worth because their loved one doesn't "need Them anymore" Other times, the care giver will begin to feel resentment because the needer places too much demand on them. The needer also feels resentment because he feels that he is not getting his needs met. Neither of these people take care of themselves but at least "someone is taking care of the needer" Who takes care of the giver? Nobody. This might be where you are in life. Who is caring for you Julia. Is there someone who maybe wants to care for you but you won't accept their offering because you are too busy to be nurtured. From my experience, I have seen that there is almost always a self esteem issue in the mix here as well. The one who is constantly being cared for has no self esteem other than that he derives from feeling worthy enough to have someone care for him. This is an externalized sense of self esteem. Not from within. The one caring for others all the time has no self esteem either except that which is dirived from having others depend on them. This is an internalized self esteem because there is nothing comming back to them from the outside world to show them that they have worth. In other words, I feel good because of what I do for you. Or I feel good because of what others do for me. Somewhere, we must find a balance. We must develope a sense of self worth based not only on our needs but on the mutual needs of each of those involved in the relationship. The need for this balance is especially important with children. If mother takes care of everything for her child, the child developes a dependency and a sense of self worth based on his ability to get others to care for him.Nothing based on his own ability to care for himself. Then there is the child who has nobody caring for him and he must do everything for himself. He too has a low self esteem because if he were worthy, mother would care for him. The child with equal amounts of care and independence afforded him will have the balance needed to develope a sound sense of self estteem.I;m sorry, I didn't mean to ramble on so much but, I think that if you really think hard about this, you will see that, as a child, you were either not cared for enough or you were cared for too much. This is not to put blame on your parents either though. They only did what they were taught was right. This is what perpetuates the problem down through the generations. OK, I'll quit now. By the way, this is only my opinion of how things might be. I base this on my personal experience and the experiences of those who have shared their lives with me. I can only hope that this helps you in some little way. Don't worry though, things can always change. Especially once you decide to take the steps nessesary to bring about that change. It sounds as though you may have already made that decision. May a smile follow you to sleep each night,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and be there waiting,,, when you awaken. Sincerly, Bill Vanderbilt Mental Health And Political Forums Respectively http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/8212/ShowForum.aspx http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/9637/ShowForum.aspx Great New Product And Biz Op. Came to me highly recommended by a very good friend. I am just starting and I will keep you all informed as to progress. It really looks good. Here is my link http://www.aatcm.com/billdaddy

Hi Bill, As always, thank you for your insightful reply! You have shown me some depth into my roll of caregiver and how self esteem plays its part. I believe my parents loved too much as they tried to do everything they could to make their childrens lives, easier. Not better, just easier, by doing everything for them. As an adult, I now resent it, because it has created a neverending battle for my identity, not ever being good enough, and real responsibility. I believe this is why I have made so many bad choices over the years. My philosophy of life was always...."love conquers all", not knowing, realizing, or even caring about the responsibilities involved. Love, would fix everything.......Now, I feel, taking care of others is the only thing I can do...but not without resentment. My sons need me, my husband needs me, and now, my dad, who I love dearly, is needing me. My sons, and husband are right here with me, but my dad is 1500 miles away, and I can only deal with him by phone and via his friends and doctor. I am unable to physically go, and care for him. Guilt, because I cannot be with him (I am the only family he has and it is my place to do so) and resentment because so many depend on me here. I am in constant battle with me, myself and I, regarding what I should be doing and what is right. I am just a mess! Don't get me wrong, I dearly love everyone I care for, and do not want any of them gone from my life...I couldn't trust anyone to care for my loved ones the way they need. But it is just like you said...we do require balance in our lives and I am definitely needing some. The scales are way too far off. But, having carried most all of everyone else's weight throughout my life...I fear, I could not survive without others needs, as I do not have a clue who I am or what my needs entail. I have been buried for so long. Sorry, guess I got off the track a little, but the past couple of days have been very challenging because, you are correct........there is no one taking care of the giver. And the giver is getting tired. My life is passing me by and I fear I am serving a life sentence without parole! In Peace, Julia

Hello Julia First of all I would like to say that your apology was most certainly not nessesary. You have spoken of what is in your heart and I believe every word that you have said. As far as getting off the track, sorry, I didn't notice. LOL. Now, I am going to make a suggestion. As you know, I don't give advice and do not proclaim to be a professional. I am only someone who has some life experience and when I can, I like to share that experience with others. Anyhow, Here goes. I know that you are very busy in your daily life but, could you find an hour or two per week that you could devote to just you. If so, you might consider looking around in your area for a group. There are groups for nearly everyone with any kind of an issue. A group for care givers or about co- dependency might be a good place to start looking. You will find that there are many other people in similar situations. The great thing about these groups is that there are people who are struggling to find answers, there are people who have found some answers. Most importantly though, there will be people just like yourself that truly care about other people and are willing to share their experiences and their knowledge with others. Besides all of this happening, joining a group like this will give you a bit of much needed time " FOR YOU ". You will find that without even trying very hard,you will find yourself helping someone. Helping someone, but in a different kind of way.A way that will be mutually rewarding without the resentment that so often comes with being on that " one way street" for so long. Without trying, you will find that your self esteem has improved and with that you will see benefits such as being more relaxed, having more energy and perhaps even sleeping better at night. If you should decide to look for a group lik this but are unable to find one in your area, please let me know and I will help you look. There are resources out there and there are people who care and between the two of us we will find something. Keep your chin up Girl. Recognizing that you are not as happy as you could be is half of the battle and the other half is a lot more enjoyable. Now, on the subject of helping others, I want to tell you briefly about a new cause in my life. I stopped at a yard sale this morning where I met a man who is trying desparately to get his son out of jail. His son is schizophrenic and this family has been trying for years to get their son the help that he needed. As in so many cases help came too late, too little, and very wrong for this situation. The son lost controll and stabbed his father several times, nearly killing him. Course of treatment perscribed. Prison. Medication perscribed. None. results so far. A family torn apart and a neglected mentally ill person behind bars with a family desparate to get him out and finally get him the treatment that he so surely needs. I will be posting this entire story on this forum very shortly. Keep a watch for it and please tell you friends about it. I believe that with the help of concerned people in this community we can help this family and I am going to do everything in my power to do just that. Take care My Friend and please stay in touch. Who Loves Ya Baby Bill