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Peter Fogel

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
1/3/2012 1:10:54 PM
Hello Friends,

The title of the below article is "Imagine A Ron Paul Presidency" I for one can't imagine a worse nightmare but the below article is insightful and thought provoking.

Parts of the article describe the US military through Paul's eyes and as you can imagine they're not very complimentary to soldiers putting their lives on the line to protect the security of the United States. It also includes some preposterous examples that Paul and the ronbots use in order to further denigrate the military. This guy is a catastrophe and after a B Hussein presidency which was bad enough we would become a second rate country with a president apologizing for past supposed misdeeds at a higher rate then B Hussein the great apologist did. As I said a nightmare

It's well worth the read and who knows it might cause some Paul "fence sitter" supporters to think a bit. The ronbots and Jones junkies are a lost cause, nothing will help with them.

Shalom,

Peter

Imagine a Ron Paul Presidency

Posted by Bio ↓ on Jan 3rd, 2012

“Imagine for a moment,” a man’s voice intones in an urgent whisper, “that somewhere in the middle of Texas there was a large foreign military base – say, Chinese or Russian.” So begins a video produced by Revolution PAC, comprised of supporters and some former campaign staff of Ron Paul. The text of the video derives entirely from a Paul speech given in early October, in which the presidential candidate condemns what he deems to be our jackbooted foreign policy and likens our military abroad to an oppressive occupation force, while whitewashing murderous insurgents as freedom fighters.

“Imagine,” the voice continues as the text zooms and veers about on the screen,

that thousands of armed foreign troops were constantly patrolling American streets in military vehicles. Imagine they were here under the auspices of “keeping us safe” or “promoting democracy” or “protecting their strategic interests.”

The analogy, of course, is to our own troops in Iraq or Afghanistan, which Paul and his supporters cite as the reason Islamic fundamentalists hate us, along with such other offenses as our military bases on Saudi soil. And the video’s suggestion is that the justifications noted above for our presence there are mere pretexts.

The video graphics come fast and furious now, and the music and narration escalate in intensity and menace. It’s moving at a pace and volume that steamroll right over any reasoned objections:

Imagine that they operated outside of US law, and that the Constitution did not apply to them. Imagine that every now and then they made mistakes or acted on bad information and accidentally killed or terrorized innocent Americans, including women and children, most of the time with little to no repercussions or consequences. Imagine that they set up checkpoints on our soil and routinely searched and ransacked entire neighborhoods of homes. Imagine if Americans were fearful of these foreign troops, and overwhelmingly thought America would be better off without their presence.

Of course, our troops are doing anything but running around ransacking entire neighborhoods; it is the insurgents in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan who are terrorizing innocents. We have gone to such ludicrous extremes to win hearts and minds that we’re more comfortable putting our own troops’ lives at risk than offending the locals. But the video’s denigration of our military and whitewashing of the enemy get worse as the analogy goes completely off the rails:

Imagine if some Americans were so angry about them being in Texas that they actually joined together to fight them off, in defense of our soil and sovereignty, because leadership in government refused or were unable to do so. Imagine that those Americans were labeled terrorists or insurgents for their defensive actions, and routinely killed, or captured and tortured by the foreign troops on our land.

Take a moment to wrap your mind around Paul’s meaning here. He’s saying that al Qaeda- and Iranian-backed mujahideen who are wreaking havoc in Iraq, who massacre Christians and pro-American Iraqis, who gleefully kill Americans, and who are destabilizing the country in hopes of establishing another Islamic fundamentalist state, are freedom fighters who have been falsely labeled terrorists and are no different from Texans banding together in defense of our freedoms and rights against Chinese or Russian soldiers. He’s saying that our troops kill and torture innocent Iraqis routinely.

Now the narrator’s voice hits a fever pitch as he takes this offensive analogy further:

Imagine that the occupiers’ attitude was that if they just killed enough Americans, the resistance would stop, but instead, for every American killed, ten more would take up arms against them, resulting in perpetual bloodshed.

Our troops have never been out to “kill enough” of the Iraqi or Afghan people. This is an outrageous slur, but typical of the Paul mindset which eliminates inconvenient facts in order to assert that America has enemies only because our foreign policy makes them so.

The reality is that our military presence on foreign soil is as offensive to the people that live there as armed Chinese troops would be if they were stationed in Texas.

Nonsense. The reality is that reality isn’t Ron Paul’s strong suit. The video ends with Paul’s own voice asserting that we must “[cease dealing] with other nations with threats and violence” and instead, “[open] ourselves up to friendship, honest trade and diplomacy.” Right. Because we all know it’s America, not Iran or Russia or China or al Qaeda or the Taliban, that is the entity trafficking in threats and violence, and eschewing friendship, honest trade and diplomacy.

It is certainly possible to make a principled argument against American nation-building in Muslim countries. It is certainly true that there are Muslims, especially in Afghanistan, the graveyard of empires, who want Americans out of these countries. But this video of Paul’s speech is not that principled argument. It is anti-American, military-bashing propaganda that ignores historical and political complexities and “meets the left coming ‘round from the other way,” as Mark Steyn puts it. Keep in mind also that this speech is from a presidential candidate whom a former staffer claims

engaged in conspiracy theories, including perhaps the [9/11] attacks were coordinated with the CIA, and that the Bush administration might have known about the attacks ahead of time. He expressed no sympathies whatsoever for those who died on 9/11.*

The video was actually first released back in October but has been steadily gaining traction over the internet since then. It has been reposted approvingly on such websites for Islamist apologists as IslamophobiaToday and Loonwatch as a compelling explanation for “why they hate us.” As full of obviously false and offensive analogies as it is, the ad is effective with those Blame America First (and Last) children of Chomsky who believe or are easily convinced that if only America would apologize for its imperialist militarism and sin no more, peace on earth and good will toward men would sweep the globe faster than Santa’s reindeer.

Imagine this instead: Imagine that we have a President of the United States whose foreign policy consists of apologizing for America, paving the way for the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, standing by while Iran acquires nuclear weapons, and relinquishing our role as the principal actor on the world stage. “But we already have a president like that,” you say. Yes, but now imagine that he is replaced in 2012 by a President who not only perpetuates this self-destructive lunacy but whose “ostrichism” exacerbates it. Imagine that in the wake of Obama’s disastrous reign, when we most need an unapologetic leader who can reverse the tide and reassert American power and dignity, we get four years of, to borrow from Steyn again, “sheer stupid half-witted parochialism” instead. Imagine Ron Paul is our next President.

*The Paul camp has not disputed the substance of these accusations, only dismissed their source as “a disgruntled former staffer who… has zero credibility.”


About

Mark Tapson, a Hollywood-based writer and screenwriter, is a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center. He focuses on the politics of popular culture.


Peter Fogel
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Amanda Martin-Shaver

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
1/4/2012 3:40:51 AM
Hello Peter
I have not had a chance to respond to you from the thread of last week on your Pleeeese comment...

When I also found out that America is a Corporation and everyone whom lives here is assets to this Corporation - New Zealand, Australia and Canada also...because of deliberate theft of the countries and mis-information and the citizens back in the early days had no idea nor did they vote upon this. It threw me into a tail spin which I was and still in some dilemma about getting out of this Corporation and either sending letters of disassociation to be a 'Free man on the land'
It will take some more research on options and how to go about this step or whether just stay as we are and remind police or powers that be, our God given rights, and no one can take our land, or stop us growing vegetables, owning animals etc
so it scared me as Voting also put us back in the system.

Hi Amanda,

We all have our own sense of urgency and passions that we are committed to. Mine is waking people up and educating them to the dangers of Islam and their plan for world domination and a Caliphate in which Islam is the only true religion. We are all witness to the murder of non believers in Islamic countries all in the name of allah, mohammad and the hate filled book called the koran.


My concerns is the New World Order which is also supported by the Holy Bible in Revelations - which covers these problems with Islam too
We both agree that people are asleep - yet you have not given your opinion why the 'Sheeple are asleep'.

Whereby I have given resources that human beings are poisoned and toxined via air, water, food, (topical and ingested) clothing, household products, personal care products etc that are designed specifically to dull down our senses and soft kill us over a period of years - there are more cancers and delapidating illnesses than ever in our history and we are in the great technological age!
So we are also brain washed and mind controlled through Media, TV programs, movies plus not given true and correct informative information...


Which I believe we both agree on this sentence. Hence our respective researching of Alternative Media. I am guessing that even in Israel media there are gaps in information too.
Instead we are misinformed, terrorised by Al Qaeda - whom Hiliary Clinton admits US created this group, so why the heck is all the fear terrorism and neighbours asked to spy on each other etc!!
Marshall Law, Shreading of the Constitution, Detained without Due Process, TSA gropings and full body scannings which is radioactive..SOPPA to shut down the internet, talks of signing a law against Freedom of Speech.. Why shouldn't I be concerned there is more to this Shadow Govt, pulling us into full Socialism. These are very similar tactics Adolf Hitler used during his reign of terror - I am on high alert too.

The jihad in all its forms used by muslims world wide is obvious to all or should be. You don't need discernment (I never said discernment for this response) in order to understand that cause they're telling it to all of us daily and without fear of repercussions cos of PC, multiculturalism and the submission of many countries to their ridiculous demands. I'll continue on my path without having to state maybes as facts and wave papers in the air and say here are the documents as Jones loves to do.
The camera films these documents - I watch from his TVnews live.. his resources from bigger mainline newspapers etc in proof of what he has said weeks, months, years earlier from his own investigations, attending trainings etc..and you can also read next day from his website

As for all the unproven conspiracies Jones your guru and mentor deals with I'll say one thing only. His "facts" are in the most part not even close to being facts and everything and anything that doesn't fit into the "picture" he's trying to present or portray becomes a "false flag operations". It's all very convenient and ridiculous to the majority of people.
Unproven by you and Sheeple whom are still asleep, but not to the awake people.

There have been many False Flag events throughout history and I shared the forum link.

Faking It: How the Media Manipulates the World into War


To claim that you and the Jones followers are gifted with the "gift of discernment" is ludicrous and in the end is a form of brainwashing that he's succeeded in accomplishing with his followers.
You have misquoted me!!! I said -
"The gift of discernment is not easy for people to understand that one can actually perceive obscure things / written / actions etc that others cannot. This is a gift from God like other Gifts like ministry, healing, talking in tongues etc - not everyone receives the same gift and some get more than one or two gifts. Alex, myself and many others have received this gift."

Not everyone receives these God given gifts, because they have not asked for them.

Yesterday I read a description of Alex Jones in an article that was dealing with Ron Paul and the author mentioned the "partnership" of many years between Jones and Paul. The author added the following as an aside cos believe it or not the majority of Americans don't know who Alex Jones is.
Quote: "Note: Paul is often on Alex Jones' show -Jones is an extreme conspiracy theorist who makes Jesse Ventura look sane." I found this describes him and others of his ilk extremely well.


Jesse Ventura, Alex Jones and Ron Paul are sane and so am I! - Up until around August/September when I came back to ALP I was learning, questioning and trying to fit my puzzle pieces. There were all sorts of different branches to the problems I was encountering. When I got the last few puzzle pieces together I just knew what I had been questioning.

In regard to all your biblical comments that God will defend Israel. Please remember that God helps those that help themselves.

You have misunderstood me:
While I am speaking about God Our joint Heavenly Father, it does concern me greatly that your writings seem to be fearful of the Muslims. Peter I gently remind you to know that God is watching over His people. HE LOVES YOU.

I'll not wait for that but will fight to bring the dangers of Jihad to as many people as possible and awaken them to the imminent dangers they're facing as infidels.

I just felt that your writings came across to me that you are fearful and just wanted to give you encouragement. We are not fighting against each other - yet there are times that it is like we are.

You said:
Quote:
"I have compassion for most of the Muslim people, especially the ones whom have been indoctrinated. It is where I need to remember Jesus spoke one of His last sentences, 'Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"
I wonder why you haven't got the same compassion for the Elite/Illuminati? Sorta a contradiction there I would say. And don't tell me it's cos the E/I killed so many people over the years. Do I have to remind you again that they are the new kids on the block? Islam butchered over 250,000,000 infidels over the centuries so I wouldn't waste your compassion and love on them cos you're in line if you don't submit to their will. They certainly feel no compassion or love for infidels and their handiwork against Christians in many muslim countries is very well documented and proves just that.

You have missed out two whole sentences...
I also said in the sentence before your quoted response:
I am charged to love everyone - love the sinner but hate the sin.
I hate the atrocities evil does and takes over people because they choose to live in darkness to cause as much harm to others as they can because they like it and it gives them power from others fear.


"Islam butchered over 250,000,000 infidels over the centuries"


you do not say how many muslims have been killed by Gentiles, Christians and Jews - Military from NZ, Australia, Canada, Britain, US over the centuries - we can kill them but they cannot retaliate.
The miliatry has been stationed in Muslim countries for decades, did they even want us there, did we even ask them? These are the questions one has to ask ourselves. I reckon our respective Govts have been the big bullies on the block.
Then when the soldiers come back wounded or even dead they are treated appallingly. The wounded do not have enough medical insurance to cover all their care, and Military are paid poorly for what they are expected to do. Their families suffer trying to make ends meet. It disturbs me greatly how much these men, women and their families suffer from the traumer - The majority of the Military are Ron Paul supporters, I reckon that in itself tells me alot as they were sent into wars that killed innocent women and children, they saw first hand that it was a farce and they were manipulated and lied too. There are many youtubes of interviews.

There are statistics of other annual deaths in high percentages and getting higher every year e.g. cancer, vaccines, prescribed drugs, because we are force feed dangerous, toxic poisons, and prescribed FDA approved poisons! While natural supplements and vitamins are becoming banned especially for smaller shops that actually have better quality than over the counter Corporpate stores.

http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/content/@epidemiologysurveilance/documents/document/acspc-029771.pdf

You see Amanda I am not "fearful" of Islam but I do recognize my enemy who is the enemy of all infidels and am fighting them on the net with my writings and when necessary in physical wars as I've done in the past when we were attacked by the armies of our "neighbors".

America is in danger as is the world at large from the Islamic plan for world domination. It's creeping Jihad and Shariah at the moment but is gaining momentum and is already in the jogging state and soon will be a stampede. Beware and forget your "gift of discernment" it's simply not necessary cos they are telling you exactly what they plan to do. I guess with the gift of discernment you can't recognize the obvious that's staring you in the face.

Your claim (and it is just that a claim) that Gingrich, Romney etc. are New World Order puppets is akin to one of David Greenfield's conclusions that Ron Paul is in the pocket of George Soros. - While Greenfield gave it as one of three possible conclusions I feel it's very close to the truth (and that includes your guru Jones). Hmmmm, now here's a conspiracy theory for you and I recommend you use your "gift of discernment" with this one. Or is discernment not necessary. If you haven't read Daniel Greenfield's article you can find it here. Scroll down to the third post on the page (or don't you bother reading anything negative on Paul?).


I have already said, that there is no 'Theory - it is Conspiracy and being committed right under our noses, as the hijacker Govt Elite run by Bankster become more brazen

When all the very negative factual data on Ron Paul is put together I simply can't understand why people (aside from the ronbots and we know why they support him) would even consider supporting him. The negatives far outweigh the very few positives that I mentioned in previous posts.

http://www.ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/history.html

Only in your opinion Peter, I do not agree with you. Do you feel better calling Ron Supporters 'RonBots'.
I do not call you names under guise - I call a spade a spade!
I like him he stands for the values I hold and Liberty is what I thought we would all want under the Constitution that is fast being shredded. We have too much Govt in our lives, too many Govt that were not even voted in, all trying to control us and herd us, this is not liberty and Safety with more police and more laws is not making me Free or feel safe it is the opposite.



You see Amanda there is no need for discernment with the articles I post since facts are the core of the articles and the data is provable. Simple facts and no more. On the other hand Jones' forte is ranting, maybes, suppositions, innuendos, sensationalism etc. etc. etc

Your opinion so we agree to disagree.

Shame that there isn't a GOP candidate I really like and could support wholeheartedly. From the list of candidates Ron Paul in my view is the worst and very dangerous for the reasons I've stated in different posts and consequently my support will go to: Anyone but Ron Paul from the GOP lineup in 2012.

Shalom,
Peter


Amanda

Quote:
Hi Amanda,

We all have our own sense of urgency and passions that we are committed to. Mine is waking people up and educating them to the dangers of Islam and their plan for world domination and a Caliphate in which Islam is the only true religion. We are all witness to the murder of non believers in Islamic countries all in the name of allah, mohammad and the hate filled book called the koran.

The jihad in all its forms used by muslims world wide is obvious to all or should be. You don't need discernment in order to understand that cause they're telling it to all of us daily and without fear of repercussions cos of PC, multiculturalism and the submission of many countries to their ridiculous demands. I'll continue on my path without having to state maybes as facts and wave papers in the air and say here are the documents as Jones loves to do.

As for all the unproven conspiracies Jones your guru and mentor deals with I'll say one thing only. His "facts" are in the most part not even close to being facts and everything and anything that doesn't fit into the "picture" he's trying to present or portray becomes a "false flag operations". It's all very convenient and ridiculous to the majority of people.

To claim that you and the Jones followers are gifted with the "gift of discernment" is ludicrous and in the end is a form of brainwashing that he's succeeded in accomplishing with his followers.

Yesterday I read a description of Alex Jones in an article that was dealing with Ron Paul and the author mentioned the "partnership" of many years between Jones and Paul. The author added the following as an aside cos believe it or not the majority of Americans don't know who Alex Jones is.
Quote:
"Note: Paul is often on Alex Jones' show -Jones is an extreme conspiracy theorist who makes Jesse Ventura look sane."
I found this describes him and others of his ilk extremely well.

In regard to all your biblical comments that God will defend Israel. Please remember that God helps those that help themselves. I'll not wait for that but will fight to bring the dangers of Jihad to as many people as possible and awaken them to the imminent dangers they're facing as infidels.

You said:
Quote:
I have compassion for most of the Muslim people, especially the ones whom have been indoctrinated. It is where I need to remember Jesus spoke one of His last sentences, 'Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do'
I wonder why you haven't got the same compassion for the Elite/Illuminati? Sorta a contradiction there I would say. And don't tell me it's cos the E/I killed so many people over the years. Do I have to remind you again that they are the new kids on the block? Islam butchered over 250,000,000 infidels over the centuries so I wouldn't waste your compassion and love on them cos you're in line if you don't submit to their will. They certainly feel no compassion or love for infidels and their handiwork against Christians in many muslim countries is very well documented and proves just that.

You see Amanda I am not "fearful" of Islam but I do recognize my enemy who is the enemy of all infidels and am fighting them on the net with my writings and when necessary in physical wars as I've done in the past when we were attacked by the armies of our "neighbors".

America is in danger as is the world at large from the Islamic plan for world domination. It's creeping Jihad and Shariah at the moment but is gaining momentum and is already in the jogging state and soon will be a stampede. Beware and forget your "gift of discernment" it's simply not necessary cos they are telling you exactly what they plan to do. I guess with the gift of discernment you can't recognize the obvious that's staring you in the face.

Your claim (and it is just that a claim) that Gingrich, Romney etc. are New World Order puppets is akin to one of David Greenfield's conclusions that Ron Paul is in the pocket of George Soros. While Greenfield gave it as one of three possible conclusions I feel it's very close to the truth (and that includes your guru Jones). Hmmmm, now here's a conspiracy theory for you and I recommend you use your "gift of discernment" with this one. Or is discernment not necessary. If you haven't read Daniel Greenfield's article you can find it here. Scroll down to the third post on the page (or don't you bother reading anything negative on Paul?).

When all the very negative factual data on Ron Paul is put together I simply can't understand why people (aside from the ronbots and we know why they support him) would even consider supporting him. The negatives far outweigh the very few positives that I mentioned in previous posts.

You see Amanda there is no need for discernment with the articles I post since facts are the core of the articles and the data is provable. Simple facts and no more. On the other hand Jones' forte is ranting, maybes, suppositions, innuendos, sensationalism etc. etc. etc

Shame that there isn't a GOP candidate I really like and could support wholeheartedly. From the list of candidates Ron Paul in my view is the worst and very dangerous for the reasons I've stated in different posts and consequently my support will go to: Anyone but Ron Paul from the GOP lineup in 2012.

Shalom,

Peter


Quote:
Hello Peter,

Well that is because I am passionate and dramatic that I am fully awake and I see so many still in willful denial or still fast asleep.

I do not want anyone to fall into the deep hole by keeping quiet and not at least trying to open their eyes. To keep quiet is just not an action I can take even at the expense of being ridiculed or called a Conspiracy Theorist etc - I don't accept that they are 'theories' now. The Global Elites plans have been hiding in plain sight, when you are awake to go look.

How did the 'sheeple' become so blind?

They are Conspiracies though - to conspire in secret to act upon.
There are people whom have woken up but probably it is just too big for them to take all in or dig into the information just yet or maybe they won't do anything at all and hope it goes away or gets better.

Believe me when I first started digging and read and watched what they have planned and who the players are (there are still bound to be more people/empires or what have you.. that I have not heard of or know their connection yet) - I told you I had nightmares for weeks. There are still nights that I have nightmares but my Lord Jesus Christ is greater than any evil that can be thrown at me. So my fear is short lived as I embrace my Saviour and claim the Blood.

This is no different to the passion I feel to tell people of the Good news that the Lord Jesus Christ died FOR ALL and His suffering and death was a 'once only' for the free gift for ALL humanity. There are many people who respond that I must be weak to need Jesus or I am a religious nut or some such - the bible is not true because man wrote it etc...

I know what I know with both main paragraphs, I can never go back, only forward.

I am charged to love everyone - love the sinner but hate the sin. So I do this to the best of my ability. Yes I agree I get frustrated trying to explain myself and there may be times that I come across as rude or even belligerent. I truly apologize.

I have compassion for most of the Muslim people, especially the ones whom have been indoctrinated. It is where I need to remember Jesus spoke one of His last sentences, 'Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do'

I hate the atrocities evil does and takes over people because they choose to live in darkness to cause as much harm to others as they can because they like it and it gives them power from others fear.

Well, we are going to differ because I do like Alex Jones he was the one that helped finally put the puzzle pieces together and make sense of the pieces that I had, Bogdan also gave more information in his forum. I had been watching Glen Beck for months prior and he is good too, but just did not get down to who and what was really happening, (I reckon Fox did not let him get too far while he was with them) whereby Alex puts in out there (this is how I live - up front, truthful and no gloss) and since I have watched him and read his older articles etc - he always backs them up with proof. He has been on his show for many years now, he was not known very well when he first started out but he has been waking people up and more switch in to listen, so he is doing something right, and now one of the biggest alternative media sources on the internet. Nearly all the other links that I have kept links to and adding to have reference to Alex or Ron Paul, Jesse Ventura..

The gift of discernment is not easy for people to understand that one can actually perceive obscure things / written / actions etc that others cannot. This is a gift from God like other Gifts like ministry, healing, talking in tongues etc - not everyone receives the same gift and some get more than one or two gifts. Alex, myself and many others have received this gift.

He has attended personally many police, military training's for different scenarios, sometimes they hired or asked public volunteers in these training's (they did not necessarily know why back then) that have come out just lately for different laws

While I am speaking about God Our joint Heavenly Father, it does concern me greatly that your writings seem to be fearful of the Muslims. Peter I gently remind you to know that God is watching over His people. HE LOVES YOU.
All through the bible He has brought His children out of danger.
I love the history of the Old Testament of the children whom He watched over with such tenderness - Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego (Daniel 3) comes to mind as these times are very similar to me that I will have to stand against being taken off our land or be put into a FEMA camp..
He promises that He will never forsake you or leave you.
None of us get out alive in our earthy body, this body is flawed and gets sick and old we have to have it changed into a new eternal one. He has promised us His children we will be live with Him.

Voting for a Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney etc whom are New World Order puppets is like...
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results . Albert Einstein and Benjamin Franklin
Amanda


Quote:
Hi Amanda,

A very dramatic post I must admit with your admission that you're "guilty" of all the points you mentioned. The truth be told I'm guilty of most of them as well even though we're on opposite sides of many issues.

I'm sure you're aware that when you google a subject you find many sources and what most people do is use the sources that are compatible to their views. That's exactly what you did in your post. I checked the links and all the videos and honestly with some of them not only wasn't I impressed I was flabbergasted that you used them as reliable sources.

In addition as you already know for me Alex Jones is not a reliable source and what you call "facts" aren't facts at all even though he talks as if they are.

Now your admission that you do not fear the muslims doesn't surprise me in the least since your favorite source sees no danger from muslims as does his bosom buddy Ron Paul.

Some of the things you wrote as facts are true and have been proven the majority are maybes, suppositions, innuendos etc.

I remember when Alex Jones interviewed the passenger that was on the flight with the underwear bomber. I was amused at the time the way Jones tried to put words in his mouth and the passenger didn't "bite" and play the Jones game.

Your claim that it's a fact there were no terrorist attacks since 911 is ludicrous as is the claim that all the Jihadi attacks were false flag operations. Puleeeeeease, Amanda you might buy into the Jones conspiracy theories but I don't and find him to be a rabble rouser and no more then that.

I guess we'll have to continue to agree to disagree especially when your "facts' are no where near being factual.

BTW, I was so against all the hullabaloo about the royal wedding. It made me sick and I was one of the few that totally ignored it. Regarding the rest of the facts about the royal family I can take it or leave it but even with this there are many errors in Jones' "factual" posts and videos . My concerns are in a totally different direction from yours and I see the dangers facing the world as much more serious then the conspiracy theories that you're advocating and promoting. You're using Jones as a a reliable source while in my opinion all he is a sensationalist about everything he talks about.

Ron Paul is a racist, bigot, Antisemite, anti Israel politician and there is nothing about him aside from his fiscal policies and fight against the FED that I can accept. Isolationism didn't make America the great country she was and can be again. His foreign policy and his almost defunding of the military will bring America down even more then the fraud and great pretender B Hussein succeeded in doing. We'll all support who we wish and in my opinion in the final count Paul will not win the GOP nomination. If he goes for a third party ticket as I mentioned in posts to Jim then he will divide the conservative vote and give B Hussein a further 4 years in the WH. If by some fluke Paul does win the GOP nomination he'll lose to B Hussein by a landslide.

A B Hussein or a Paul president are catastrophes that I and many others are trying to prevent. I stand by my stance that B Hussein must go and I'll support anybody except for Ron Paul.

Shalom,

Peter

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
1/4/2012 12:47:00 PM
Hello Amanda,

I have a big surprise for you. I'm not gonna reply to your full post cos the majority of it has been discussed in past posts and it appears that you believe if you repeat things often enough you'll tire me out but nothing can be further from the truth and as I said in previous posts it simply starts to bore me.

I will refer to one part only simply for the reason that as usual when you use the Paul and Jones rhetoric and sound bytes you also ignore history and present it in a distorted manner which sounds more like propaganda then true facts and distorting history for the sake of supporting the kook Ron Paul and the Elite/Illuminati issue.

You quoted one sentence "Islam butchered over 250,000,000 infidels over the centuries" and omitted why I wrote that sentence. I'll put in the full quote and your reply that totally ignores history and is full of Ron Paul and Jones sound bytes. My remarks will come after the quote.
Quote:
I wonder why you haven't got the same compassion for the Elite/Illuminati? Sorta a contradiction there I would say. And don't tell me it's cos the E/I killed so many people over the years. Do I have to remind you again that they are the new kids on the block? Islam butchered over 250,000,000 infidels over the centuries so I wouldn't waste your compassion and love on them cos you're in line if you don't submit to their will. They certainly feel no compassion or love for infidels and their handiwork against Christians in many muslim countries is very well documented and proves just that.



you do not say how many muslims have been killed by Gentiles, Christians and Jews - Military from NZ, Australia, Canada, Britain, US over the centuries - we can kill them but they cannot retaliate.
The military has been stationed in Muslim countries for decades, did they even want us there, did we even ask them? These are the questions one has to ask ourselves. I reckon our respective Govts have been the big bullies on the block.
Then when the soldiers come back wounded or even dead they are treated appallingly. The wounded do not have enough medical insurance to cover all their care, and Military are paid poorly for what they are expected to do. Their families suffer trying to make ends meet. It disturbs me greatly how much these men, women and their families suffer from the traumer - The majority of the Military are Ron Paul supporters, I reckon that in itself tells me alot as they were sent into wars that killed innocent women and children, they saw first hand that it was a farce and they were manipulated and lied too. There are many youtubes of interviews.


Amanda, here you go again trying to mislead and claim that Muslims killed the infidels cos the infidels also killed them. You're talking about the recent past and the 250,000,000 million have been killed over the past almost 1,500 years. Try and forget the Ron Paul sound bytes (if you can), the short history of the Elite/Illuminati and open your history books and read about the history of Islamic conquests and the killings in the name of allah, jihad, koran all for the sake of world domination and an Islamic Caliphate. I posted the history in the past and I'll try to find it and edit the link in here. If not google Caliphate or the historic wars of the Caliphate. You can't change history but you can ignore it and use ridiculous sound bytes and propaganda instead which is exactly what you've done.

Now here's an interesting thing. In your reply you added a link with no explanation (
http://tempuri.org/tempuri.html ) and I assumed it was to support what you're planning to write but you miscalculated cos all you did was read the title of the article but failed to read the article. If you did read it you sure misunderstood it. I'd recommend reading the article rather depending on a title that you think supports your views. I'll post the full article below. BTW, in the past I referred to this article cos it shows how future journalists are being brainwashed and taught to be biased while still studying their future trade. In addition it also shows how the on line journalist course is funded by George Soros and his groups. Ooooops.

Shalom,

Peter

Course Instructs Journalists to Take Note That Jihad 'Not a Leading Cause of Death'

By

Published September 29, 2011

| FoxNews.com

A new online journalism course on Islam appears to downplay the threat posed by global jihad groups, suggesting reporters keep the death toll from Islamic terrorism in "context" by comparing that toll to the number of people killed every year by malaria, HIV/AIDS and other factors.

"Jihad is not a leading cause of death in the world," the online course cautions studying journalists.

While that is technically true, researchers at the Culture and Media Institute who examined the online program took exception to that and numerous other claims made in the Poynter News University course

Dan Gainor, vice president at the institute, said the course is sweeping these threats "under the rug," while watering down the section on jihad with inappropriate comparisons.

"Infectious disease, we have government structures to prevent that, and that's great ... in radical Islam we have not even one organization but several organizations that are constantly seeking to kill Americans and others too," he said. "It seems like journalists should not be involved in trying to downplay that."

Gainor's group released a report Thursday morning on the course.

The Islam reporting program is supported in part by a group, the Social Science Research Council, which has received funding from organizations backed by billionaire George Soros.

In the section on jihad, the course informs readers that the word merely means "struggle" in Arabic -- this is something White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan has sought to remind the public of in the past. The course notes that terrorism in the name of jihad has "failed to mobilize Muslims outside of a few territories."

But to illustrate this point, the course references the number of people killed by various causes, implicitly suggesting journalists change the way they report on jihad-related deaths.

"Of the hundreds of murders that occur each day, journalists are far more likely to report on jihad-related incidents than other violence. As a result, news consumers have developed a skewed impression of the prevalence of jihad, relative to other forms of conflict. Context is essential in covering this global story in a way that does not amplify fears of jihad," the course says.

The Poynter course estimates jihad groups have killed about 165,000 people over the past four decades, mostly in Iraq. It notes the biggest toll in the United States was the approximately 3,000 killed on Sept. 11, 2001.

"To give those numbers some context, the FBI reports that approximately 15,000 people in the U.S. are murdered each year. All around the world, more than half a million people are murdered annually, according to the World Health Organization," the course says. "At its peak, jihad organizations have accounted for less than 2 percent of this toll -- in most years, they account for well under 1 percent. (A half-million individuals die each year from nutritional deficiencies, more than 800,000 from malaria, and 2 million from HIV/AIDS.)"

Gainor noted that murder victims mostly are killed in separate incidents, whereas victims of Islamic terrorism often are killed in larger-scale attacks. Also, murder victims typically are not killed in the name of an ideological war against a country.

The online course, which is broken into several sections, also discusses "right-wing activists" bent on linking American Muslims to terrorism. The section includes the good-journalism tip that reporters should check to see if experts they're interviewing "have a bias or a stake in the story you are covering." But then it only cites examples of anti-Muslim groups.

The course also addresses Shariah law without including information of instances where the law is interpreted with harsh consequences.

"In countries governed by strict adherence to Islam, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia, Shariah is the law of the land. But in many other Muslim countries, such as Egypt, there are separate civil and Shariah law courts, with the latter governing issues such as marriage and family law, while civil courts decide the rest," the course says.

But the Culture and Media Institute, part of the conservative Media Research Center, noted that in strict countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia, people can be stoned to death or flogged for non-violent crimes. In Iran, a pastor who refused to renounce his Christian faith was facing execution after his sentence was recently upheld by an Iranian court -- though an attorney now says he is likely to be acquitted.

The Poynter Institute said in an email to FoxNews.com that it created the course "as a tool for journalists who want to be accurate in educating their audience about the religion and culture of Islam, Muslim communities in the U.S., and the distinctions between Islam as a political movement and the radical philosophies that inspire militant Islamists."

"We believe there is a need to better understand the complexities of Muslim societies and the online course offered by Poynter and Washington State University is a vital resource toward that end," the Poynter Institute said.

"The values underpinning the course are truth, accuracy, independence, fairness, minimizing harm and context -- the core journalistic values on which we build all our teaching here at Poynter."


Peter Fogel
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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
1/4/2012 12:56:48 PM
Hello Friends,

There are a myriad of reasons to reject Ron Paul and in my opinion very few positives and they don't outweigh the negatives and the danger of people of his ilk.

One of the points that many claim in favor of this guy is that he's a principled person. This morning I watched a video that among other things also discussed Paul's principals. Paul claims that he's never voted in favor of "pork" bills but and there is a serious but here he has a technique that he uses when it involves pork for his constituency. In proposed bills he insures that "pork" for his district is included in a proposed bill and knowing that the bill will pass then votes against it in this way preserving his "perfect" voting record for voting against pork bills. When asked about this his answer was "that's how the game is played". So, knowing that the bill will pass and also knowing that his district will get its share of the "pork" he comfortably "plays the game". Not very principled if you ask me but it is a good example of the principals that he believes in. I wonder where the "gift of discernment" applies here for the ronbots and the not addicted (yet) supporters?

Another question that needs answering are his George Soros connections (read about it here) and more. Daniel Greenfield opened a can of worms with this article (it's the third post on the page).

Today I read an article about Paul's past associations and his membership in a fraternity while in University. For all those interested in the occult and cults in general might find his membership and connections to freemasonry and his ties to the "Rosy Cross" better known as Rosecrucian very interesting to say the least. Came as a surprise to me but maybe even more so to the staunch Paul supporters....... the ronbots couldn't care less. All in all interesting information. I didn't need it to be against Paul but for all those searching and researching secret societies just might be in for a surprise especially if they support the kook Ron Paul.

Below are excerpts from the article and for those interested in reading it all click on the title of the article.

Shalom,

Peter

Not As Advertised.

by, Rev. Larry Wallenmeyer- P.A.N. Admin.

The Below is form an Email sent me by Tom Trento, Founder and President of The United West (formerly The Florida Secuirty Council). Link to Tom Trento’s site:

http://www.theunitedwest.org

Tom Trento is an expert in the field of National Security particularly as it pertains to Global Islamic Jihad, Sharia Law IN America, and where the Candidates and politicians stand on the subject.

Here’s is the message of Tom Trento in “The United West” email-
[Tom encouraged, even urged us to share the email so I am.]

“When someone says they want to kill you – believe them!”

The human capacity to deny evil is almost limitless. And for those of you who are considering supporting Ron Paul, a Presidential candidate who actively advocates for the “Government in GAZA” (a.k.a. HAMAS), are you in effect supporting genocide, Jihad, and the absolute destruction of the State of Israel? For the HAMAS Charter, their organizing charter (their Constitution) their founding principles state:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it.”


“Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.”Â

and quoting the Koran in the Charter

“The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”
—————
This could be the reason that the “Government in GAZA” is listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, EU, UK, Canada, Japan, Israel, and the US. Even Jordan, its Arab neighbor, banned HAMAS in 1999. But not Ron Paul.
Congressman Paul has stated repeatedly for over a decade that the Palestinian people are “innocent victims” who have no choice but launch missiles and blow themselves up on busses. He further states that this is in no way, shape or form due to their Islamic ideology or to their pathological/genocidal hatred of Jews. No, Dr. Paul believes that everything is 100% Israel’s fault.
In Elie Wiesel’s book “Night” he described how, as the Holocaust got underway, people all over Europe were reluctant to believe that something so awful was happening. Most people didn’t want to believe that man was capable of such inhumanity to man. The initial reports of what was happening in the ghettoes and in the camps were so horrific that most simply chose not to believe them. Moreover, most people were unwilling to accept that Europeans, civilized, cultured and intelligent, were complicit in allowing this to happen in the twentieth century.

Sadly, those who were unwilling to believe the truth were often the first to be deported to the ghettoes or the camps. Elie describes how the Jewish people of the villages were mostly well educated and rational adults – yet, the very idea of government-sanctioned mass murder was beyond their ability to comprehend, much less accept.
Ron Paul and others in the media should take to heart Elie’s warning, “When someone says they want to kill you – believe them.”

≈ ≈ ≈
ACTUAL STATEMENTS


Link to videos showing Ron Paul in HIS OWN WORDS saying many Un-Constitutional and Non-Conservative things, and to The United West tearing apart Ron Paul’s foolish and DANGEROUS National Defense and Foreign Policy-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87_-l5cOYYQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtIE0z-H7Mk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtIE0z-H7Mk&feature=related
——————-
This last video link will seem “out there”, but then we ARE talking about one of the MOST “out there” candidates in 50-60 years. The link is-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP3Upzx5gLU



This is the Commentary and accompanying links provided with the above video-
Ron Paul freemason and his ties to the “Rosey Cross” better known as ROSECRUCIAN.

Rosicrucian Alchemy is a universal science concerned with such mythical ideas as transmutation of elements like lead into gold and humans into gods, perpetual motion, free energy, the Philosopher’s Stone, Elixir of Life, Holy Grail, and Golden Fleece to name a few.

You can read it all here. And find further youtube and documented links there as well.


Peter Fogel
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Amanda Martin-Shaver

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
1/4/2012 3:34:48 PM
Hello Peter,
You probably noticed that I used notepad and copied and pasted so I could answer to the best of my ability.

I am sorry I did mess up with that page you copied out - I did look at that considered it, but it was not the contents that I was looking for.
What I thought I had linked to was the Search page (which have a long url with unusual letters &% in them) for Causes of Annual Deaths because there is quite a few and this has been a concern of mine - We are being Soft Killed... This issue has nothing to do with Ron Paul - it is mine. I have spoken on this many times, yet I feel you just gloss over these.

Amanda

Quote:
Hello Amanda,

I have a big surprise for you. I'm not gonna reply to your full post cos the majority of it has been discussed in past posts and it appears that you believe if you repeat things often enough you'll tire me out but nothing can be further from the truth and as I said in previous posts it simply starts to bore me.

I will refer to one part only simply for the reason that as usual when you use the Paul and Jones rhetoric and sound bytes you also ignore history and present it in a distorted manner which sounds more like propaganda then true facts and distorting history for the sake of supporting the kook Ron Paul and the Elite/Illuminati issue.

You quoted one sentence "Islam butchered over 250,000,000 infidels over the centuries" and omitted why I wrote that sentence. I'll put in the full quote and your reply that totally ignores history and is full of Ron Paul and Jones sound bytes. My remarks will come after the quote.
Quote:
I wonder why you haven't got the same compassion for the Elite/Illuminati? Sorta a contradiction there I would say. And don't tell me it's cos the E/I killed so many people over the years. Do I have to remind you again that they are the new kids on the block? Islam butchered over 250,000,000 infidels over the centuries so I wouldn't waste your compassion and love on them cos you're in line if you don't submit to their will. They certainly feel no compassion or love for infidels and their handiwork against Christians in many muslim countries is very well documented and proves just that.



you do not say how many muslims have been killed by Gentiles, Christians and Jews - Military from NZ, Australia, Canada, Britain, US over the centuries - we can kill them but they cannot retaliate.
The military has been stationed in Muslim countries for decades, did they even want us there, did we even ask them? These are the questions one has to ask ourselves. I reckon our respective Govts have been the big bullies on the block.
Then when the soldiers come back wounded or even dead they are treated appallingly. The wounded do not have enough medical insurance to cover all their care, and Military are paid poorly for what they are expected to do. Their families suffer trying to make ends meet. It disturbs me greatly how much these men, women and their families suffer from the traumer - The majority of the Military are Ron Paul supporters, I reckon that in itself tells me alot as they were sent into wars that killed innocent women and children, they saw first hand that it was a farce and they were manipulated and lied too. There are many youtubes of interviews.


Amanda, here you go again trying to mislead and claim that Muslims killed the infidels cos the infidels also killed them. You're talking about the recent past and the 250,000,000 million have been killed over the past almost 1,500 years. Try and forget the Ron Paul sound bytes (if you can), the short history of the Elite/Illuminati and open your history books and read about the history of Islamic conquests and the killings in the name of allah, jihad, koran all for the sake of world domination and an Islamic Caliphate. I posted the history in the past and I'll try to find it and edit the link in here. If not google Caliphate or the historic wars of the Caliphate. You can't change history but you can ignore it and use ridiculous sound bytes and propaganda instead which is exactly what you've done.

Now here's an interesting thing. In your reply you added a link with no explanation (
http://tempuri.org/tempuri.html ) and I assumed it was to support what you're planning to write but you miscalculated cos all you did was read the title of the article but failed to read the article. If you did read it you sure misunderstood it. I'd recommend reading the article rather depending on a title that you think supports your views. I'll post the full article below. BTW, in the past I referred to this article cos it shows how future journalists are being brainwashed and taught to be biased while still studying their future trade. In addition it also shows how the on line journalist course is funded by George Soros and his groups. Ooooops.

Shalom,

Peter

Course Instructs Journalists to Take Note That Jihad 'Not a Leading Cause of Death'

By

Published September 29, 2011

| FoxNews.com

A new online journalism course on Islam appears to downplay the threat posed by global jihad groups, suggesting reporters keep the death toll from Islamic terrorism in "context" by comparing that toll to the number of people killed every year by malaria, HIV/AIDS and other factors.

"Jihad is not a leading cause of death in the world," the online course cautions studying journalists.

While that is technically true, researchers at the Culture and Media Institute who examined the online program took exception to that and numerous other claims made in the Poynter News University course

Dan Gainor, vice president at the institute, said the course is sweeping these threats "under the rug," while watering down the section on jihad with inappropriate comparisons.

"Infectious disease, we have government structures to prevent that, and that's great ... in radical Islam we have not even one organization but several organizations that are constantly seeking to kill Americans and others too," he said. "It seems like journalists should not be involved in trying to downplay that."

Gainor's group released a report Thursday morning on the course.

The Islam reporting program is supported in part by a group, the Social Science Research Council, which has received funding from organizations backed by billionaire George Soros.

In the section on jihad, the course informs readers that the word merely means "struggle" in Arabic -- this is something White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan has sought to remind the public of in the past. The course notes that terrorism in the name of jihad has "failed to mobilize Muslims outside of a few territories."

But to illustrate this point, the course references the number of people killed by various causes, implicitly suggesting journalists change the way they report on jihad-related deaths.

"Of the hundreds of murders that occur each day, journalists are far more likely to report on jihad-related incidents than other violence. As a result, news consumers have developed a skewed impression of the prevalence of jihad, relative to other forms of conflict. Context is essential in covering this global story in a way that does not amplify fears of jihad," the course says.

The Poynter course estimates jihad groups have killed about 165,000 people over the past four decades, mostly in Iraq. It notes the biggest toll in the United States was the approximately 3,000 killed on Sept. 11, 2001.

"To give those numbers some context, the FBI reports that approximately 15,000 people in the U.S. are murdered each year. All around the world, more than half a million people are murdered annually, according to the World Health Organization," the course says. "At its peak, jihad organizations have accounted for less than 2 percent of this toll -- in most years, they account for well under 1 percent. (A half-million individuals die each year from nutritional deficiencies, more than 800,000 from malaria, and 2 million from HIV/AIDS.)"

Gainor noted that murder victims mostly are killed in separate incidents, whereas victims of Islamic terrorism often are killed in larger-scale attacks. Also, murder victims typically are not killed in the name of an ideological war against a country.

The online course, which is broken into several sections, also discusses "right-wing activists" bent on linking American Muslims to terrorism. The section includes the good-journalism tip that reporters should check to see if experts they're interviewing "have a bias or a stake in the story you are covering." But then it only cites examples of anti-Muslim groups.

The course also addresses Shariah law without including information of instances where the law is interpreted with harsh consequences.

"In countries governed by strict adherence to Islam, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia, Shariah is the law of the land. But in many other Muslim countries, such as Egypt, there are separate civil and Shariah law courts, with the latter governing issues such as marriage and family law, while civil courts decide the rest," the course says.

But the Culture and Media Institute, part of the conservative Media Research Center, noted that in strict countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia, people can be stoned to death or flogged for non-violent crimes. In Iran, a pastor who refused to renounce his Christian faith was facing execution after his sentence was recently upheld by an Iranian court -- though an attorney now says he is likely to be acquitted.

The Poynter Institute said in an email to FoxNews.com that it created the course "as a tool for journalists who want to be accurate in educating their audience about the religion and culture of Islam, Muslim communities in the U.S., and the distinctions between Islam as a political movement and the radical philosophies that inspire militant Islamists."

"We believe there is a need to better understand the complexities of Muslim societies and the online course offered by Poynter and Washington State University is a vital resource toward that end," the Poynter Institute said.

"The values underpinning the course are truth, accuracy, independence, fairness, minimizing harm and context -- the core journalistic values on which we build all our teaching here at Poynter."


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