Hello Georgios,

I see you are stating that this is the real truth and obviously for those that read and are aware of what is happening this is not really the case. I wonder if you listened to the whole dialog in Davos? It's over an hour and half and I listened to it all. It would might be worth your while to listen to it.

((youtube id="cR4zRbPy2kY&eurl "))((/youtube))

Yes Geo I agree Turkey used to be an ally and still is but things have changed since the government changed from a civil one to a religious based government. No big surprise there. President Peres didn't apologize for saying what he did since there was no reason for him to do so. He did say that from his part he will continue the dialog with Turkey and PM Erdogan replied that he wasn't angry with Pres. Peres but was angry that he wasn't allowed to speak.

I ask you a simple question that is quite germane to this discussion. How would Greece respond to over 9500 bombs and mortars being fired on Greek cities or the Greek part of Cyprus??? Not very well I believe considering the long dispute between the 2 countries.

Here is a copy of a comment I just posted in my thread on this subject.

Shalom,

Peter

Hello Friends,

I see there was some lively discussion while I was out. I also saw that Geo started a thread of his own where he is trying to show a different picture of this conflict. I will be responding there too.

There is no doubt that the present conflict was started and created by the constant and consistent bombings of Israel by the Hamas over the past 3 years. During that period Israel didn't respond and continued with the peace talks with the Palestinians. There was also a peace fire with the Hamas that they didn't renew in December 2008. In addition during that same period the Hamas continued bombing for the simple reason to do everything in their power to insure that there will be no peace. It is their stated purpose to destroy Israel and they have no desire for peace. All you have to do is read their protocols and you'll see that they not only have they no desire for peace they intend to continue on with their attacks and tactics till the end of time.

Israel withdrew from Gaza over 3 years ago and removed all military forces, villages, settlements and their inhabitants from the Gaza area. Gaza is not an occupied territory and has been under the full control of the Palestinian leadership since then. Hamas has done nothing to improve the lives of its inhabitants quite the opposite is true up to and including the murder, incarceration and torture of all those that oppose them. In a previous post I gave the link for a video with a high ranking PLO official that verifies just that.

After 5000 bombs and 4500 mortar attacks Israel finally decided that enough is enough. That is the truth. I wonder where all the truth seeking people were when the bombs were raining down on Israeli cities, villages and kibbutzim? Not interesting enough I guess.I also wonder how any country would react when their cities are bombed daily?

The death of any child is a tragedy and we suffer with every loss. Their children and other casualties of the recent war and previous wars were treated in Israeli hospitals and even more so during the period that the bombs were raining down on Israel. The only difference is that we educate and teach our children that we are yearning for a true and lasting peace and they're children are taught from childhood that killing Israelis and Jews is not only permissible but required according to their religion.

Shalom,

Peter     

Hello Georgios,

you might find these videos interesting in regard to this discussion.

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It clearly shows that using woman and children as human shields are a tactic and well thought out "plan".

This one shows the root cause of the conflict.

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I hope that the videos show up if not in my next post I'll paste in the urls.

Shalom,

Peter

Hello Georgios,

It is true that a picture can be a weapon and the Hamas use it well. They do forget to mention though that they use schools, hospitals , UN facilities Mosques, private homes and densely populated areas to rain their bombs on Israel. These are documented and proof is available as you well know.

Throughout the last war Israel allowed provisions to pass through to the citizens of Gaza. Well the large majority was "high jacked| by the Hamas and distributed to their supporters and others didn't receive their share. Casualties were evacuated to Israel and treated in Israeli hospitals and this has been ongoing through out the conflict over the years. Thousands of Palestinians have been treated in Israeli hospitals and still are.

The Hamas don't treat any Israeli in this manner nor do they treat their opposition within the Palestinians in this manner. They simply torture and murder them.

Please read the following articles and see for yourselves. These are truths that can't be denied and are not from Israeli sources.

Shalom,

Peter

Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic

Special Dispatch - No. 2217
January 28, 2009	No. 2217
PLO Executive Committee Secretary Yasser Abd Rabbo Accuses Hamas of New Atrocities Against Fatah Members in Gaza Following are excerpts from speeches delivered by PLO Executive Committee secretary Yasser Abd Rabbo, which aired on Al-Jazeera TV on January 22, 2009 and on Al-Arabiya TV on January 16, 2009. TO VIEW THIS CLIP AND OTHERS, YOU MUST LOG IN/REGISTER FOR MEMRI TV, AT http://subscriptions.memri.org/content/en/member_registr_tv.htm. REGISTRATION IS FREE OF CHARGE. To view this clip, visit http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1998.htm. Al-Jazeera TV, January 22, 2009: "Today, Hamas Gangs Are Unleashed Like Packs of Animals on the Streets of Gaza Against Fatah Members" Yasser Abd Rabbo: "Yesterday, we heard Khaled Mash'al talking from Damascus about new, additional preconditions for national reconciliation - the only goal of which is to hinder the achievement of reconciliation. [...] "Today, Hamas gangs are unleashed like packs of animals on the streets of Gaza against Fatah members. Because the military bases and the prisons have been destroyed, they have turned Gaza schools, Al-Nasser Hospital, the radiology department at Shifa' Hospital, Al-Aqsa University, and other places, including mosques, into centers for the detention, interrogation, and torture of Fatah members and members of other national Palestinian factions. [...] "Dozens of people have been shot in the leg, been beaten savagely, and had their bones broken, because they are members of the Fatah movement, which took to the streets of Gaza to confront the occupation, leaving all disagreements [with Hamas] behind, during the battle against the invasion by the Israeli occupation. This is what is happening today in Gaza. [...] "This reminds me of the 'glorious exploits' of Chemical Ali in southern Iraq after the 1991 'Mother of All Wars.' When the smoke of battle cleared, he turned his gangs and his fire against the Iraqis in southern Iraq, and the massacre that ensued is known to all. Who is the 'Chemical' today in Gaza, who wants to turn Gaza into the venue of a new massacre? [...] "I heard that Abu Marzouq is sanctioning the killing of Palestinians, in an interview with the Qatari Al-Sharq newspaper the day before yesterday. He said that they have [captured] collaborators, and they have already executed some, while others await their turn. What collaborators are you talking about, Mr. Abu Marzouq? Of course he has expanded the list, saying that anyone who criticizes the policy of Hamas a traitor and a collaborator, and that it is okay to kill him. Is this the promised Islamic rule, or is it a blood-soaked lie about Islam? [...] "Who plunders the trucks bringing aid to the Gaza Strip, and distributes it only among the follows of its party and movement, while the children of Gaza are starving? Who is stealing the land of Gaza, dividing it into lots, and giving them to the cronies of Hamas members of the Shura Council?" [...] Al-Arabiya TV, January 16, 2009: "[Hamas] Still Has a Backward Understanding of the Meaning of a Popular Mandate" "[Hamas] still has a backward understanding of the meaning of a popular mandate. A popular mandate does not mean that the people places its fate in your hands for you to do as you wish - to drag it into wars and destruction, without taking anything into consideration [...] "What came out of the Doha 'festival' except for speeches lecturing us, and peddling the blood of Gaza. Each of the regimes that were present there is domestically defeated for one reason or another. I don't want to get into specifics regarding each regime, but one of them carried out a military coup, another has a problem with the International Criminal Court, and the others have different problems."

HISTORICAL MASSACRE #1

Murderers withour a trial

Following an argument which broke out between Palestinian workers and Jewish workers in the Haifa Petroleum Refinery, leading to the deaths of a number of Palestinians and wounding and killing approximately sixty Jews. The Zionest ganges planned to take revenge on behalf of fellow Jews who had been killed by attacking Baldat al-Shaikh and Hawasa where most of the workers live.

On the night of January 30-31, 1947, a mixed force composed of the First Battalion of Palmakh and the Carmelie brigade (estimated at approximately 150 to 200 terrorists) launched a raid against the two towns under the leadership of Hayim Afinuam. Taking the homes by surprise as their inhabitants slept, they pelted them with hand grenades, then went inside, firing their machine guns. The terrorist attack led to the deaths of approximately sixty citizens inside their homes, most of them women, elderly and children.

The attack lasted for an hour, after which the Zionists withdrew at 2:00 A.M. after attacking a large number of homes.

According to a report written by the leader of the terrorist operation, " the attacking units slipped into the town and began working on the houses. And due to the fact that gunfire was directed inside the rooms, it was not possible to avoid injuring women and children".

Georgios