Kris, Thanks for your reply. Actually, I didn't say abundance is the result of success. I said a sense of abundance is the evidence of success. Perhaps because you have rejected the word 'success', you aren't seeing that I am redefining it for myself. I now define success (for myself only) in exactly the same way you define abundance, and in agreement with what Thomass said in his original essay (first post), i.e., it's a matter of choice, not something to seek and find externally. I'm still using 'abundance' mostly in the material sense, with the implication of sufficiency. Each person must define 'sufficient' for himself...and to me, success is the realization that what you have is sufficient and being happy with it. However, somehow we have to account for that sense of fulfillment on a spiritual level while still acknowledging that if we 'want' something, that lack means there is an insufficiency in our lives. Will not having it filled mean that we feel unfulfilled? Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends on the individual. I don't feel unfulfilled because I don't have the material means at this time to realize my ultimate goal. The actions I take daily to obtain the means give me a great sense of fulfillment and will always do so even if I never fully realize the goal. In that sense of fulfillment, I have success. I also have the positive energy to attract those means. Abundance will result. It will be the evidence of my success. I still maintain that we don't disagree...we just have a semantics discongruity, as I thought, and perhaps a different philosophy about how to get what we want. My website and virtually all my businesses have at their central core the idea that success is whatever you individually choose it to be, and that it is never too late to manifest what you want in life, including material wealth and spiritual fulfillment. I have not formed the belief that the things I desire will materialize just because I desire them. It seems to me that practicing the disciplines that foster manifestation are an enhancement, not a replacement for mastering the discipline of taking action. Maybe that's because all my life I have been trained and conditioned that the 'cause' of work is usually followed by the 'effect' of obtaining the means to provide myself with what I desire. If I wanted a half-million dollar sailboat, I would be making a plan to earn the money to get it. I would harness the power of intent to conceive the plan, put it into action, and follow through on the right path as shown to me through the power of attraction. That's in fact what I'm doing to get what I do want, which is the material means to provide abundantly (my definition) for myself and my extended family plus endow a generous grant program that will help non-profit organizations with their various missions. I've been seeking a way to provide for my extended family through 10 years of hard work with no understanding of the law of attraction. That I'm now experiencing a breakthrough in the level of return on my work I attribute directly to learning that principle and balancing my life accordingly. I don't fault you for pursuing a different way. You almost certainly have a more peaceful life than I do if you are content to wait, with no expectation or time frame, for someone or something to provide what you want without a plan of action on your part. For me, it would be frustrating. Although I'm certain that control over one's life is an illusion, I'm equally certain that a measure of order can be had with planning and discipline. I have no desire to impose it on anyone else, but for me, I choose it. It's certainly interesting to me to get some insight into your world, though. I appreciate your contributions. Cheri

Hello ya all, I believe what we are trying to do here is determine a link between spirituality and success. Everyone has a different conception of success, as well as what is spiritual. The popular notion I'm attempting to dispel is that Success is a destination, something to be learned, or something to be bought. For most people this popular myth is not satisfying because after arriving at this destination, learning the lesson, or buying the thing. They do not feel as they expected they would. My concept of abundance is also subjective to me the individual. My methods will not work for some people because we observe the world differently via the thought process. The main concept I'm attempting to get accross is to be happy with what you have now. Then as you go down the path of life when you reach a destination or goal you are adding this to your all ready perfect existence. What ever level that my be. I've yet to feel empty since assuming this outlook on life. This is what works for me I thought I'd share it with you. The methods support what Thomass' topic is about. Thinking of yourself as already successful, this attitude will attract more prosperity to you. I thought I'd include my life's experience on how these principals work in my everyday life. I've tried a lot of different things. I know what works best for me. I've been a goal setter and achier my entire life. Which is the reason I posted my experience of reaching my goals faster recently using some of the thought processes I've been talking about. I'm trying to provide incentive so others might try thinking this way to get where they want to go faster. Reaching a goal is all about your thinking and expectations. However you reach your goals do it ! If what I'm saying sounds like hog wash don't do it ! Please be happy that I do reach my goals and am very satisfied when I do. I'll keep experimenting with this and when I reach my ultimate goal. I'll be very happy and want to share how I did it with others so they can feel this inter joy. Which is what I'm doing here as I trip along the path of life. May everyone find prosperity in their life by realizing how much abundance is already around them. Use what resources you have as fuel to get to the next goal. If you fail you are still perfect and still have abundance around you. Get up and try again at reaching that elusive goal. That is what life is about reaching goals and being happy no matter what methods you might use. If you are not happy then try something different. Enjoy abundance in your life today Everyone have a wonderful day Peace, Love, Liberty Kris

Well Cheri, this is very interesting to say the least, although I'm having difficulty understanding the everything is now part. But a very interesting article. Thank you for sharing it. Luella May

Kris, Sounds like we have reached consensus! I am indeed happy for you that your methods work for you. I know you have heard the phrase, 'when the student is ready, the teacher appears'. For those who are ready, your life experiences are the lesson and you are the teacher. I met a woman on a teleconference yesterday who manifested a house! I don't know the whole story, but she is an energy worker, and she has won the HGTV dream home. I know that it happens...I don't yet know exactly how, though I'm learning. In the meanwhile, I'm putting myself in the way of opportunity and learning to recognize it when it appears. Cheri

Hi, Luella Thanks for visiting! Yes, these concepts are difficult for me to grasp, also. But the more I study them, the more I can observe them at work in the world. Maybe Thomass or Kris can point the way to more reading at a more basic level for those of us who are just starting to be interested in all this. Cheri