Hi Jackie, I just came across your forum thread through another forum post. I would like to invite you and anyone else who reads this to our Gospel website where there are a number of articles clearly distinguishing the true Gospel from false gospels, and the true God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) from counterfeits. http://www.godsonlygospel.com 'Knowing' the true God and the Christ that He sent is eternal life (Jn.17:2,3). I'd like to ask whoever reads this, this question: 'Do you know the true God or a counterfeit?' The true God chose a people out of Adam's fallen race and gave them to His Son to save. All of their salvation is conditioned on Christ's righteousness (Christ's perfect obedience to God's law on their behalf and His atoning death for their sins). This is the righteousness revealed in the Gospel (Rom.1:16,17 & 10:1-3). This is the only ground on which God will save sinners. Yes, we must believe, but what must we believe? That Christ's righteousness alone entitles sinners to all of salvation and final glory, which excludes faith as the ground. Who ever, as I once did, thinks that their faith is the ground on which God saved them, is believing a cleverly disguised system of works - a false gospel. Yes, we must believe, but faith is not what justifies us, Christ's obedience unto death is (Rom.5:19). As long as one is believing a christ that died for all, one is believing that salvation is conditioned on the sinner, not on Christ, and is therefore seeking to establish a righteouness of his own like the Jews in Rom.10, whether they are aware of it or not. It's a hard saying, but true all the same. No less hard and true than Christ's words in Jn.6:44,65,66 - that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws them, unless it is given unto them of the Father. And His words in Mat.11:27 - that no one knows Him except the Father and no one knows the Father except Him and those He reveals the Father to. Who are the 'those'? The ones mentioned in John 17:2,3 that the Father has given to the Son and the Son gives eternal life to. But through the means of the Gospel (wherein Christ's righteousness is revealed) and God-given faith and repentance. All that is necessary for salvation comes from God, none of it is from us. THAT is grace. A salvation that is conditioned on the sinner in any way, to any degree, even on faith, is a salvation of works. Faith is the means to salvation, not the ground of salvation, as is made clear in 2 Thess.2:13,14. Best wishes, Jennie http://www.godsonlygospel.com