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Re: Remember always that you have not only the right ..
1/12/2006 8:35:19 PM
Bogdan, Very well said! I like to use the old saying,"It may not be much, but what you see is what you get" Thanks for the mentoring
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Neil Reinhardt

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Re: Remember always that you have not only the right ..
1/12/2006 10:00:16 PM
Hi Bogdan. You have again provided another great quote from a very good person. She did a lot for many people and was a fine lady. It really is sad that while each person is different and unique, most people are really rather sheep like. They follow leaders and trends rather than actually thinking for themselves as much as they could, and should. Many years ago, when the movie "Urban Cowboy" came out, many people bought cowboy boots & got into western dancing. For a while, buying vans was in and then pick up trucks, then RUV's. Now because many, to most, Americans are overweight you have people saying have extra pounds is no longer considered unattractive. (Which is a totally untrue as few would rather look at a fat person than at a fit person.) And most people do not question the beliefs they were programmed with as babies and small children. This is the reason most people are the religion their parents are. (or any religion at all) Had they been raised by people who believed in a different religion, that is the one they would believe in. For instance, had Douglas Grounds been raised a Moslem, he would constantely be pushing it religion instead of the Christain religion. And he would be just as sure it was the rigth one to beleive in. I see where Douglas said: "I Have found the secret to being a good individual, is to park yourself in church as much as possible, and become active in the word." Really Douglas? Then how come there have only been four people in history who have been awarded TWO Noble Prizes each and all four of them neither believed in your religion OR in any personal, prayer answering gods? They are Marie Curie, Burtrand Russell, Linus Palling, who were all ATHEISTS and Albert Einstein who rejected the concept of a personal god. How come I do not know of one really rich religious American who has given 90% of their huge fortune to help others like a Atheist named Andrew Carnegie did? Why do I not know of ONE rich religious American who has given the United Nations ONE BILLION dollars to help others when an ATHEIST named Ted Turner has? And Douglas, why do I not know of ONE rich religious American who has already given MANY BILLIONS of Dollars to help others and who is constantly giving many more BILLIONS of dollars (23 Billion total) when an ATHEIST named Bill Gates has and is? Douglas, you & others need to read what these "American Christian leaders" have said & then tell me (with a straight face) they are really "good people" http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/quotes.htm Compare the things they say to what America's greatest orator, Robert Green Ingersoll, who was also one of America's greatest thinkers & an Atheist leader said. "The true civilization is where every man gives to every other every right that he claims for himself." Why don't those Far Right Christian's say things like that if they are so good? For more on Ingersoll go here: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/ The truth is religious people are NOT any more honest, kind, helpful, nice, just, truthful, hard working, compassionate, brave, intelligent, courageous or any other positive trait than Atheists are. So Douglas, you go to church and be active in the "word" while we Atheists go out and make the world a better place to live. After all, it was not Atheists who blew up the Federal Building in Ok. City and the Olympics in Atlanta. Nope, it was Christians who did those things. And it was not Atheists who have been conducting terrorist attacks killing people all around the world since 1989 and who did 9-11. Nope, it was more religious people who did, and do those things.
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Re: Remember always that you have not only the right ..
1/13/2006 10:04:58 AM
Neil, I don't understand your post because you said you like the quote but your comments give me a different view. If someone wishes to go to church and that helps them in being an individual, isn't that similar to you having a strong devotion towards the views of other Atheists. you said... ...while we Atheists go out and make the world a better place to live. I may be wrong but sometimes what appears to be doing good for some people in the world ends up being bad for others. Thanks for the thought provoking comments, Jack
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Neil Reinhardt

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Re: Remember always that you have not only the right ..
1/14/2006 5:42:42 PM
Jack, 1. Going to church does NOT make a person an individual at all as it is just more "group think" 2. The reason MOST people are religious is simply because who ever raised them PROGRAMMED them into that particular religion. And, had they been raised by someone in a different religion, then they would be supporting that one just as strongly as the one they are now. 3. I do NOT have, in any way, a "strong devotion towards the views of other Atheists" As, very sad to say, MOST Atheists are NO more rational or logical about any subject other than religion than religious people are. 4. I DO have a very strong devotion towards Knowledge, Facts, Proof, Science, Logic, Rational and Critical Thinking skills. All of which, combined with a desire to know the TRUTH caused me to become an Atheist. 5. AN ATHIEST is simply a person who does not find sufficent proof to believe in one, or more, of ANY of the MORE than 30,000 Differnt "gods" we humans have INVENTED so far. IF you are one of the little over Two Billion people in the world who believe in the concept of ONE god, we just dis-believe is ONE LESS god than you do. (FYI - A little over Two Billon people believe in MANY gods and a little less than Two Billion people do not believe in ANY gods.) More FYI - Most of the more than 29,000,000 Americans who are now ATHEISTS, WERE Christians. We have been there. done that. And a lot of us know more about the Christian religion than MOST practicing Christians will ever learn! (Like did you know there were NINE "Golden Rules" BEFORE the Christians claimed they originated it?) And many of us WERE some type of officals in a religion, like Ministers, Priests, Deacons, Rabies or what have you. so do not think we have no clue about religion. Name me ONE Atheist who has EVER committed an act of terrorism to further Atheism. Eric Robert Rudolph, in his attempts to further the Christian religon KILLED people when BLEW up clinics and the Olympics in Atlanta. Christians theaten, persecute, beat and sometimes kill us here in America EVERY YEAR! Do a googgle search for violence against Atheists conducted by Christians in America. Then do a googgle search for violence against Christains conducted by Atheists. While I have not yet done one, I will be very suprised if there is ONE PROVEN case. By the way, the Christian Bible tells not only tells it's believers to KILL ME for what I have written here, it also tells them TO KILL another 27 times. We Atheists have NO books, NO instructions and NO beliefs which tell us to kill anyone for any reason. That alone makes us better than all religious believers I know of except Buddists.
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Bogdan Fiedur

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Re: Remember always that you have not only the right ..
1/14/2006 7:56:19 PM
Hi Neil, I'm finding that you have very broad understanding of social issues and have lots of valuable facts ready for any discussion. I really appreciate it. At the same time want to bring to your attention that this forum's purpose is to bring spark to everybody's life by providing motivation, inspiration and words which build our strengths, which help us to understand that weaknesses are normal and we all have to deal with them. That our potentials are far beyond our imaginations. That anyone of us has something which the other person doesn't have and if we use it, we will bring much more light to our sometimes common lives, that we can live our lives with more passion and purpose. I don't believe that those who refer to god here, want to convert those who either believe in different god or don't believe in god at all. When they talk or refer to god, they wish you well and want only good things to happen to you. The fact that you don't believe in god or believe in one, doesn't matter to me or to anyone else as long as your presence and participation brings support, inspiration and information which strengthens purpose of this forum. As long as you make me stronger, I respect you and appreciate you. I also respect you for being always able to say how it is and invite you to future discussions with the spirit of friendship and support to demonstrate that individual devotion to religion or lack of it is not a necessary means to success and friendly coexistence of people from different walks of life, gender, age or ethnic background. I recognize that God means different things to different people, and if this helps them to have more fulfilling and enjoyable life so be it. Bogdan Fiedur
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