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Luis Miguel Goitizolo

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RE: SOUND OFF ON ANY TOPIC YOU WANT TO.
9/8/2012 6:20:21 PM
Hello again Evelyn and Peter,

I am very sorry for this delayed reply.

A
s I said earlier, I do not favor right- or left-wingers, nor do I side with Republicans or Democrats. I forgot to mention that I am not pro- Israel or pro-Iran. Neither is the owner of the truth. Neither has the right to enrol me in their parties or forces.

And, do you really believe God favors this or that other party?

Imagine a circle representing the universe, and God in its center. People from every belief, even atheists, are on the periphery. They are in no way evil, but they are all divided into separate blocks by their beliefs.
When the time is ripe for it, do you think God will only let the Jews, or the Islamists, or the Christians, into His realm in the center of all things? Or will He, as the Father of them all, rather let everyone enter?

And why should all the common people from every country or belief suffer the consequences of their leaders’ decisions? I agree people are pretty stupid today, and they will let themselves be influenced by their leaders' flamboyant acts and their recently gained popularity. But can this give Netanyahu the right to decide on the lives of countless people and their children by launching a pre-emptive attack on Iran, just based on his belief that Israel will be wiped off the map by Iran’s missiles if he doesn’t?

Which takes me to my Deja-vu feeling. It was the same with Iraq and its oil (only there were no missiles) and similarly with Libya and its oil, and probably Afghanistan and its oil, but now it is not Bush and the United States (with the NATO countries alongside) but Netanyahu and Israel, and its children, that are involved in Netanyahu’s decision against Iran (and its oil).

Summing up, you have not said a word to convince me that the bad guys are on the side of Iran only. Bad guys abound everywhere whenever you need them.

With regard to the guy on the video that got this debate started, I don’t believe he is a coward or the lowest of the low among the people of Israel. Some extreme situations sometimes require another kind of courage to handle. I don’t think it just to condemn the messenger on the nature of the message delivered.

And as to the good signs that I have seemed to perceive in the world’s recent events: I have listed a number of cases that go back through a period of one month approximately and belong to matters of quite different nature, mostly including a favorable shift in the perception of controversial issues by people. Note that they have not been reported at leftist papers only. You may see the list below this post.

Note: After the horrendous earthquakes of Haiti and, of course, Japan (followed by the cruellest possible tsunami) and the oil spill in the Caribbean see,
all catastrophic events around the world would mostly seem to have been of milder strength with far lesser numbers of victims.

Hugs,

Miguel


About-face: Former climate change skeptic now says global warming is man-made
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/former-climate-change-skeptic-now-says-global-warming-134617449.html
Hong Kong protest over school 'brainwashing' by China
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/hongkong/9518685/Hong-Kong-protest-over-school-brainwashing-by-China.html

Corruption trial hailed as good sign for Brazil
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/corruption-trial-hailed-good-sign-brazil-183749167.html

Where’s The Gold? NY Federal Reserve Undergoes First-Ever Audit

http://rt.com/usa/news/ny-fed-audit-gold-839/

US starts landmark Agent Orange cleanup in Vietnam
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-08-09/agent-orange-vietnam/56899152/1

Reporter Admits Financial System Changeover: “They’re Going to Put the Old System In a Coma(Video)
http://worldassociationofnewprofessionals.com/cnbc-stand-in-reporter-admits-financial-system-changeover-theyre-going-to-put-the-old-system-in-a-coma/

JPMorgan Chase Libor Subpoenas Coming From Everybody In The World

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/jpmorgan-chase-libor-subpoenas_n_1760015.html
Nuclear waste issues freeze permits for U.S. power plants

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/news/economy/nuclear-plants-waste/index.htm

Bank fees questioned in High Court [Australia]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-14/bank-fees-questioned-in-high-court/4198392?section=business

In change of heart, Iran says foreign help for victims in quake-stricken area is now welcome
http://news.yahoo.com/change-heart-iran-says-foreign-help-victims-quake-105013510.html

Struggling borrowers in Ireland could claim debt forgiveness
http://www.mortgagefinancegazette.com/arrears/struggling-borrowers-in-ireland-could-claim-debt-forgiveness/

Indian yoga guru, supporters detained as anti-corruption protest intensifies
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1241250--indian-yoga-guru-supporters-detained-as-anti-corruption-protest-intensifies

Only 2% of Canadians Now Deny Climate Change
http://scienceblog.com/56241/only-2-of-canadians-deny-climate-change/

Russian, Polish churches appeal for forgiveness
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-polish-churches-appeal-forgiveness-145703109.html

Vietnam arrests banking tycoon
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vietnam-arrests-banking-tycoon-060142654.html

The Unstoppable Tide of Education Grows Across Africa
http://www.care2.com/causes/the-unstoppable-tide-of-education-grows-across-africa.html#ixzz25psBVfj7

Air Pollution, Carbon Decreased Last Year

http://www.care2.com/causes/air-pollution-carbon-decreased-last-year.html
(also: http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air)

German drug firm makes 1st apology for thalidomide
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/german-drug-firm-makes-1st-apology-thalidomide-161625770--finance.html

Myanmar removes names from blacklist
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/30/world/asia/myanmar-blacklist-names/index.html

US Will Return to Gold Standard
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/9511886/US-will-return-to-gold-standard-says-Euro-Pacific-Capital-chief-Peter-Schiff.html


Middle Class vs. the 1%: It’s About to Get Really Ugly

http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/post/2393570/IS-THE-NEW-AGE-REALLY-COMING/232.aspx


Quote:
Hello Evelyn & Miguel,

When you used the term deja-vu feeling in the air the first thought that came to mind is you're so right .......... about the deja-vu but not your reasoning.

To me the whole issue with Iran brings to mind the Holocaust and the agenda of the Nazis to eliminate the Jewish people from the world. He succeeded in massacring over 9,000,000 human beings 6,000,000 of them being Jews. We're once again facing another lunatic regime that wants to do the exact same thing. You can bring all the denial videos you wish Miguel but the fact remains that not a week goes by without either Ahmadinejad or their "supreme" leader Hammeni speaking about destroying Israel and the Jews and of course the United States. You can't help being aware of this unless you purposely avoid watching the reports or the myriad youtube videos documenting this. Ahmadinejad even has the temerity (or lunacy) to state this at the UN.

Regarding the MSM's reporting of these many statements I have to state that it must be undeniable and true when even the progressive liberal media have no alternative other then to report on these many statements made by the lunatic Iranian regime.

As for the extreme left here in Israel, for me they are the fifth column and self haters. They'll embrace the jihadi terrorist who murdered innocent victims and not their Israeli victims. The best example of that was the butchering of the Fogel family in Itamar last year and the extreme left came out in support of the jihadi terrorists and not the Fogel family.

I have boundaries and self hating Jews are the lowest garbage imaginable and give ammunition for people trying to advocate anti Zionism and Antisemitism.

Check your sources again and using Al Jazeera TV is laughable and isn't a reliable source quite the opposite.

Most Israelis do not want war myself included but we are realists and knowing the dangers facing us being surrounded by enemies we know that we can depend only on ourselves to determine our future. Hence the Israeli majority consensus that a preemptive strike against Iran is part of our reality. We don't want it but we won't shy away from it.

BTW, there is no comparison with the war in Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan. For us it's a question of personal survival and whether that interests you or not is irrelevant.

The better world you're talking about is a bunch of hog wash and nothing provable that it's in the coming or even a possibility at the moment. Look around you and see what's happening in Eurabia, the Scandinavian countries, in Russia, in the USA etc. and show me the better world you're talking about.

Shalom,

Peter


Quote:
Hi Miguel, I don't understand what you mean about "a Deja-vu feeling" and just how does this remind you of Iraq and Libya? I definitely do not want to see innocent people killed, why would you think I do? Innocent people are always killed in wars but just look at all the thousands being slaughtered in Syria and tell me who is responsible for that and would you say this also has a curious smell of oil? And the slaughter of Christians does that also have the smell of oil?
From all accounts, Netanyahu is well liked and respected by the majority of the Israeli people but it's the same everywhere, there are always going to be those who are not satisfied with anything. He definitely has his finger on the pulse of what goes on and in my opinion no one wants peace more than he does and too, you have to remember that Peter lives there and has access to many more reliable sources of information than we do.
Maybe labeling someone an extreme-leftist doesn't always disqualify someone but in my experience for the most part it does with me. We're seeing it right now here in the states of how the extreme left operate and believe me it's not a good sight.
You say the world is changing for good and to be honest, I can't see it. I'm seeing more absolute hatred everyday and am a daily victim of it. As long as there are those who are envious of others and crave power there can never be peace, peace would be nice but I have little hope myself. I also do not believe what the MSM says, maybe some, but not much. Our MSM here in the states is so biased with their reporting it is sickening. There is no true investigative reporting anymore.
I didn't watch the videos because they only prove the words were different but the meaning was the same. It is a well known fact that Israel is surrounded with enemies and if Iran does use nuclear weapons to attack them then it could very well mean Armageddon. So tell me why you approve of Iran building nuclear weapons.
Evelyn

Quote:
Hello Evelyn and Peter,

There is a Deja-vu feeling in the air that whether you like it or not, reminds of Iraq and Libya cases. The problem is, war in today’s circumstances would not mean
"only" a few more thousand killings and a long, atrocious war. It would most probably mean
Armaggedon.and many thousands of innocent people killed from the start, plus World War III following almost immediately. Is that what you want, what people want? All kinds of "preventive" war, most especially in the Near-East Current scenario, have a curious smell of oil.

I will only ask, is Netanyahu aware of the fact that many people in Israel don’t want any more wars?
Sure he is. Remember, war would mean many thousands of killed Jews (including my own friends in Israel) in just a few days into it. And there is such a big amount of misinformation going on on this matter that I don’t necessarily feel like admitting any of it. Why should anyone only believe what some MS media tell?

For example, I can certainly believe Ahmadinejad threatened Israel with retaliation, but did he really ever threaten to “wipe-off” Israel? I have found several videos and articles that definitely deny it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZmffEQmKr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebqp-xaMfkc

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/israeli-minister-agrees-ahmadinejad-never-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/11/zakaria-avoid-another-war-in-the-middle-east/

Also, I don’t believe labelling someone a extreme-leftist necessarily disqualifies him or her. I no longer am a right- or a left-wing person, a Democrat or a Republican. I only see a person who wants to avoid any more bloodshed occurring in the world. Want it or not, the world is changing for good. There are good signs that after all the tribulation of past years, the Lord is taking charge of his brethren and that includes all the good-will people in the world.

Hugs,

Miguel


"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

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Peter Fogel

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Person Of The Week
RE: SOUND OFF ON ANY TOPIC YOU WANT TO.
9/9/2012 8:20:45 AM
Hello Miguel,

You misunderstand I have no desire whatsoever to "enroll" you in any party or force. My objective is to show inaccuracies when I see them posted especially when it concerns Israel.

Nor am I any way trying to convince you who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. That is pretty obvious for any and all to see. To be quite honest I am not surprised by your comments and your opinions. After reading your new age thread and the galactic material you post, to me there's no doubt which side you favor. That is your right of course but I totally disagree with you.

I very rarely discuss who God favors and who he doesn't even though I'm well versed in the Bible but I focus on realities we can all see and understand. The Bible can be interpreted by different people in different ways so all people can find verses that'll support their views and beliefs. For me it's quite obvious what the truth is but it's my truth and you have yours.

As to who the good guys are is also obvious and you don't even have to have a discerning eye or ear for that. Just common sense. The lunatic Iranian regime and their leaders are definitely the "bad guys" to say the least but you of course apparently are blind to that. Forget for a moment the Israeli/Iranian issue and remember how they brutally butchered their own people when they had the uprising after the last fraudulent elections and then again after the start of the so called "arab spring". If they so mercilessly murder their own people why would anyone in his right mind think they won't try and eradicate the Jewish people and Israel from the map which they constantly threaten to do?

Your deja-vu moment is ludicrous and not even worthy of a reply. To imply that Israel is considering a preemptive attack for the Iranian oil is so off the mark that it makes you sound as if you flew over the cuckoo's nest.

I guess you're not aware or choose to ignore the FACT that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where
freedom of religion prevails. All it's citizens have equal rights and are represented in the Knesset, Judiciary and in all other aspects of Israeli life.

As for Netanyahu he has the support of the majority of the Israeli people. He realizes the dangers of a nuclear Iran as do we all (you excluded). He is not imposing a preemptive strike for his own glorification but for the safety, security and the good of the Israeli people. You apparently haven't got a clue about what fighting for survival is all about but Israel and the Jewish people have been fighting for survival not only since the Israeli State was proclaimed but throughout history.

As for your list of "good signs" all I can say is that they are just different issues that were either dealt with in court or other venues and some catastrophes that you are implying are man made. Prove it and until you can they are just more conspiracy theories of the Alex Jones variety. He too sees a conspiracy under every stone and pebble.

Global warming is still one of the great hoaxes of the century and was proven to be based on unsound science, or did you skip those articles?


Below is a video you should watch if you haven't in the past. It was created by the lunatic Iranian regime and shortly after it was released went viral on the internet. See for yourself who the bad guys are.

Below that please find one of the "good signs" you're advocating. Wonder if you'll think it's a good sign or quite evil as I do. This is not a one off happening but if you're following events as I do you can't have missed the other travesties of justice going on in the UN and it's agencies and councils.

Shalom,

Peter


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwiadYT-N9k&feature=player_embedded


The edit and translation is by Reza Kahlili (Copyright: Reza Kahlili) - (The original Farsi version is over one hour long and the makers have stated specifically that there are no restrictions on copying said video. They have also asked the public to distribute the video).For more information about this movie and on the book "A Time to Betray", please visit: http://atimetobetray.com/

Accused genocidal warlord named to Human Rights Council

U.N. elevation called 'callous, dangerous, and tragic'


An African warlord once sought as an international criminal on genocide allegations will soon be contributing his judgments on human rights issues worldwide as a member of the United Nations Human Rights Council, a development that is sparking outrage in Congress.

Sudan, led by Omar al-Bashir, has been awarded a seat on the international tribunal starting in 2013, and U.S. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., said it’s just gone too far.

“Allowing this genocidal dictatorship, which has killed thousands of its citizens, to serve on such a body is beyond hypocrisy, it is callous, dangerous, and tragic,” she said in a statement issued as the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

“The U.N. has surrendered to despots and rogue regimes as it allows the likes of Iran’s Ahmadinejad, Venzuela’s Chavez, and now Sudan’s Omar al-Bashir to corrupt the system and use it to further their own oppressive and despotic schemes.”

She said, “It is beyond apparent that the U.N. is broken. It is time to stop this hostile takeover and implement real change. As the Obama administration has failed to act, I call on Congress and responsible nations to support true U.N. reform and stop supporting this corrupt system.”

She’s authored the United Nations Transparency, Accountability and Reform Act, which would require the U.N. to be funded by voluntary contributions from nations only, instead of assessments which the U.S. now funds.

The coming rise to power from Sudan’s al-Bashir on the Human Rights Council earned a featured spot in Judicial Watch’s Corruption Chronicles, where it outlines questionable national and international government actions.

“The famously corrupt United Nations has hit a new low, awarding a genocidal warlord indicted by an international court for crimes against humanity a seat on its laughable human rights council,” the commentary said. “The worst part is that this madness is funded by Americans to the tune of $7 billion plus a year. The American cash keeps pouring in even though the U.N. is [a] pillar of corruption, fraud and mismanagement. Its so-called human rights council is a huge joke with members that are famous for oppressing their citizens and, in many cases, committing atrocious human rights violations.

“Cuba, Iran and Venzuela are among the offenders.”

The organization said al-Bashir is “the last person on earth you would go to for anything related to human rights.”

He was charged by the International Criminal Court for war crimes in Darfur “and is responsible for killing thousands of his own citizens,” the report said. A Geneva-based human rights group described his coming ascent to the panel like putting “Jack the Ripper in charge of a women’s shelter.”

A Fox News report earlier this year reported that al-Bashir had been accused of “murdering, exterminating, raping, torturing and forcibly transferring” civilians in his own country.

According to the U.N., he’ll soon be expected to uphold “the highest standards in the promotion and protection of human rights.”

At that time, U.S. officials were outraged.

“Sudan, a consistent human rights violator, does not meet the council’s own standards for membership,” Kurtis Cooper, deputy spokesman at the time for the U.S. mission, said. “It would be inappropriate for Sudan to have a seat on the council while the Sudanese head of state is under International Criminal Court indictment for war crimes in Darfur and the government of Sudan continues to use violence to inflame tensions along its border with South Sudan.”

Several years earlier, Time magazine documented that al-Bashir came to power in 1989 when he toppled the prime minister in Sudan. He was accused of the violence that left an estimated 300,000 people dead.

The membership of the council right now includes nations considered human rights violators including China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia and Uganda.

“The al-Bashir regime mistreats and tortures detainees and censors the media, the group, Human Rights Watch, writes in its assessment of the north African country. Additionally, Sudan’s indiscriminate bombing in civilian-populated areas has displaced hundreds of thousands of people,” Judicial Watch wrote.




Quote:
Hello again Evelyn and Peter,

I am very sorry for this delayed reply.

A
s I said earlier, I do not favor right- or left-wingers, nor do I side with Republicans or Democrats. I forgot to mention that I am not pro- Israel or pro-Iran. Neither is the owner of the truth. Neither has the right to enrol me in their parties or forces.

And, do you really believe God favors this or that other party?

Imagine a circle representing the universe, and God in its center. People from every belief, even atheists, are on the periphery. They are in no way evil, but they are all divided into separate blocks by their beliefs.
When the time is ripe for it, do you think God will only let the Jews, or the Islamists, or the Christians, into His realm in the center of all things? Or will He, as the Father of them all, rather let everyone enter?

And why should all the common people from every country or belief suffer the consequences of their leaders’ decisions? I agree people are pretty stupid today, and they will let themselves be influenced by their leaders' flamboyant acts and their recently gained popularity. But can this give Netanyahu the right to decide on the lives of countless people and their children by launching a pre-emptive attack on Iran, just based on his belief that Israel will be wiped off the map by Iran’s missiles if he doesn’t?

Which takes me to my Deja-vu feeling. It was the same with Iraq and its oil (only there were no missiles) and similarly with Libya and its oil, and probably Afghanistan and its oil, but now it is not Bush and the United States (with the NATO countries alongside) but Netanyahu and Israel, and its children, that are involved in Netanyahu’s decision against Iran (and its oil).

Summing up, you have not said a word to convince me that the bad guys are on the side of Iran only. Bad guys abound everywhere whenever you need them.

With regard to the guy on the video that got this debate started, I don’t believe he is a coward or the lowest of the low among the people of Israel. Some extreme situations sometimes require another kind of courage to handle. I don’t think it just to condemn the messenger on the nature of the message delivered.

And as to the good signs that I have seemed to perceive in the world’s recent events: I have listed a number of cases that go back through a period of one month approximately and belong to matters of quite different nature, mostly including a favorable shift in the perception of controversial issues by people. Note that they have not been reported at leftist papers only. You may see the list below this post.

Note: After the horrendous earthquakes of Haiti and, of course, Japan (followed by the cruellest possible tsunami) and the oil spill in the Caribbean see,
all catastrophic events around the world would mostly seem to have been of milder strength with far lesser numbers of victims.

Hugs,

Miguel


About-face: Former climate change skeptic now says global warming is man-made
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/former-climate-change-skeptic-now-says-global-warming-134617449.html
Hong Kong protest over school 'brainwashing' by China
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/hongkong/9518685/Hong-Kong-protest-over-school-brainwashing-by-China.html

Corruption trial hailed as good sign for Brazil
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/corruption-trial-hailed-good-sign-brazil-183749167.html

Where’s The Gold? NY Federal Reserve Undergoes First-Ever Audit

http://rt.com/usa/news/ny-fed-audit-gold-839/

US starts landmark Agent Orange cleanup in Vietnam
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-08-09/agent-orange-vietnam/56899152/1

Reporter Admits Financial System Changeover: “They’re Going to Put the Old System In a Coma(Video)
http://worldassociationofnewprofessionals.com/cnbc-stand-in-reporter-admits-financial-system-changeover-theyre-going-to-put-the-old-system-in-a-coma/

JPMorgan Chase Libor Subpoenas Coming From Everybody In The World

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/jpmorgan-chase-libor-subpoenas_n_1760015.html
Nuclear waste issues freeze permits for U.S. power plants

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/news/economy/nuclear-plants-waste/index.htm

Bank fees questioned in High Court [Australia]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-14/bank-fees-questioned-in-high-court/4198392?section=business

In change of heart, Iran says foreign help for victims in quake-stricken area is now welcome
http://news.yahoo.com/change-heart-iran-says-foreign-help-victims-quake-105013510.html

Struggling borrowers in Ireland could claim debt forgiveness
http://www.mortgagefinancegazette.com/arrears/struggling-borrowers-in-ireland-could-claim-debt-forgiveness/

Indian yoga guru, supporters detained as anti-corruption protest intensifies
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1241250--indian-yoga-guru-supporters-detained-as-anti-corruption-protest-intensifies

Only 2% of Canadians Now Deny Climate Change
http://scienceblog.com/56241/only-2-of-canadians-deny-climate-change/

Russian, Polish churches appeal for forgiveness
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-polish-churches-appeal-forgiveness-145703109.html

Vietnam arrests banking tycoon
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vietnam-arrests-banking-tycoon-060142654.html

The Unstoppable Tide of Education Grows Across Africa
http://www.care2.com/causes/the-unstoppable-tide-of-education-grows-across-africa.html#ixzz25psBVfj7

Air Pollution, Carbon Decreased Last Year

http://www.care2.com/causes/air-pollution-carbon-decreased-last-year.html
(also: http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air)

German drug firm makes 1st apology for thalidomide
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/german-drug-firm-makes-1st-apology-thalidomide-161625770--finance.html

Myanmar removes names from blacklist
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/30/world/asia/myanmar-blacklist-names/index.html

US Will Return to Gold Standard
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/9511886/US-will-return-to-gold-standard-says-Euro-Pacific-Capital-chief-Peter-Schiff.html


Middle Class vs. the 1%: It’s About to Get Really Ugly

http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/post/2393570/IS-THE-NEW-AGE-REALLY-COMING/232.aspx


Quote:
Hello Evelyn & Miguel,

When you used the term deja-vu feeling in the air the first thought that came to mind is you're so right .......... about the deja-vu but not your reasoning.

To me the whole issue with Iran brings to mind the Holocaust and the agenda of the Nazis to eliminate the Jewish people from the world. He succeeded in massacring over 9,000,000 human beings 6,000,000 of them being Jews. We're once again facing another lunatic regime that wants to do the exact same thing. You can bring all the denial videos you wish Miguel but the fact remains that not a week goes by without either Ahmadinejad or their "supreme" leader Hammeni speaking about destroying Israel and the Jews and of course the United States. You can't help being aware of this unless you purposely avoid watching the reports or the myriad youtube videos documenting this. Ahmadinejad even has the temerity (or lunacy) to state this at the UN.

Regarding the MSM's reporting of these many statements I have to state that it must be undeniable and true when even the progressive liberal media have no alternative other then to report on these many statements made by the lunatic Iranian regime.

As for the extreme left here in Israel, for me they are the fifth column and self haters. They'll embrace the jihadi terrorist who murdered innocent victims and not their Israeli victims. The best example of that was the butchering of the Fogel family in Itamar last year and the extreme left came out in support of the jihadi terrorists and not the Fogel family.

I have boundaries and self hating Jews are the lowest garbage imaginable and give ammunition for people trying to advocate anti Zionism and Antisemitism.

Check your sources again and using Al Jazeera TV is laughable and isn't a reliable source quite the opposite.

Most Israelis do not want war myself included but we are realists and knowing the dangers facing us being surrounded by enemies we know that we can depend only on ourselves to determine our future. Hence the Israeli majority consensus that a preemptive strike against Iran is part of our reality. We don't want it but we won't shy away from it.

BTW, there is no comparison with the war in Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan. For us it's a question of personal survival and whether that interests you or not is irrelevant.

The better world you're talking about is a bunch of hog wash and nothing provable that it's in the coming or even a possibility at the moment. Look around you and see what's happening in Eurabia, the Scandinavian countries, in Russia, in the USA etc. and show me the better world you're talking about.

Shalom,

Peter


Quote:
Hi Miguel, I don't understand what you mean about "a Deja-vu feeling" and just how does this remind you of Iraq and Libya? I definitely do not want to see innocent people killed, why would you think I do? Innocent people are always killed in wars but just look at all the thousands being slaughtered in Syria and tell me who is responsible for that and would you say this also has a curious smell of oil? And the slaughter of Christians does that also have the smell of oil?
From all accounts, Netanyahu is well liked and respected by the majority of the Israeli people but it's the same everywhere, there are always going to be those who are not satisfied with anything. He definitely has his finger on the pulse of what goes on and in my opinion no one wants peace more than he does and too, you have to remember that Peter lives there and has access to many more reliable sources of information than we do.
Maybe labeling someone an extreme-leftist doesn't always disqualify someone but in my experience for the most part it does with me. We're seeing it right now here in the states of how the extreme left operate and believe me it's not a good sight.
You say the world is changing for good and to be honest, I can't see it. I'm seeing more absolute hatred everyday and am a daily victim of it. As long as there are those who are envious of others and crave power there can never be peace, peace would be nice but I have little hope myself. I also do not believe what the MSM says, maybe some, but not much. Our MSM here in the states is so biased with their reporting it is sickening. There is no true investigative reporting anymore.
I didn't watch the videos because they only prove the words were different but the meaning was the same. It is a well known fact that Israel is surrounded with enemies and if Iran does use nuclear weapons to attack them then it could very well mean Armageddon. So tell me why you approve of Iran building nuclear weapons.
Evelyn

Quote:
Hello Evelyn and Peter,

There is a Deja-vu feeling in the air that whether you like it or not, reminds of Iraq and Libya cases. The problem is, war in today’s circumstances would not mean
"only" a few more thousand killings and a long, atrocious war. It would most probably mean
Armaggedon.and many thousands of innocent people killed from the start, plus World War III following almost immediately. Is that what you want, what people want? All kinds of "preventive" war, most especially in the Near-East Current scenario, have a curious smell of oil.

I will only ask, is Netanyahu aware of the fact that many people in Israel don’t want any more wars?
Sure he is. Remember, war would mean many thousands of killed Jews (including my own friends in Israel) in just a few days into it. And there is such a big amount of misinformation going on on this matter that I don’t necessarily feel like admitting any of it. Why should anyone only believe what some MS media tell?

For example, I can certainly believe Ahmadinejad threatened Israel with retaliation, but did he really ever threaten to “wipe-off” Israel? I have found several videos and articles that definitely deny it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZmffEQmKr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebqp-xaMfkc

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/israeli-minister-agrees-ahmadinejad-never-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/11/zakaria-avoid-another-war-in-the-middle-east/

Also, I don’t believe labelling someone a extreme-leftist necessarily disqualifies him or her. I no longer am a right- or a left-wing person, a Democrat or a Republican. I only see a person who wants to avoid any more bloodshed occurring in the world. Want it or not, the world is changing for good. There are good signs that after all the tribulation of past years, the Lord is taking charge of his brethren and that includes all the good-will people in the world.

Hugs,

Miguel


Peter Fogel
Babylon 7
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RE: SOUND OFF ON ANY TOPIC YOU WANT TO.
9/9/2012 1:08:10 PM

Hi Miguel, I won't requote your last post since with the other quotes it's quite long.

Miguel, we are so far apart on our beliefs that I doubt we can ever find a middle road. I was quite surprised at how your dislike of Israel and the US came through but then it is your right to believe what ever you want to but in my opinion you're quite radical in your beliefs.

You asked why should all the common people from every country or belief suffer the consequences of their leaders’ decisions and to that I say, there has to be leaders or everything would be in chaos. There is no decision that is right for everyone, in a perfect world yes, but we don't live in a perfect world, far from it in fact.
I just read a news article today where Iran is boasting about how they have weapons that can destroy the US and they've also been very vocal about attacking Israel. Again I ask, are you in favor of either the US or Israel to just sit back and let these lunatics bomb us? To me that is sheer lunacy and this statement you made "but now it is not Bush and the United States (with the NATO countries alongside) but Netanyahu and Israel, and its children, that are involved in Netanyahu’s decision against Iran (and its oil)" to me was extremely offensive because it sounds as though you hate America and Israel. From what I understand Israel relies on the global market for more than 99 percent of its oil. Israel is such a tiny nation sitting in the midst of enemies and by your saying this I assume you too want them wiped off the map.
I guess we don't read the same Bible because my Bible says that the Jews are God's chosen people and Israel is the land he gave them. I've heard this preached in my church all my life and I truly believe that those that harm Israel and it's people will be judged harshly and punished by God.
You say there are good signs that you have seemed to perceive, but not definitely seen? Things must be very different in your country because things are certainly not better here and as a matter of fact seem to be getting worse all the time. All you have to do is watch or read the news to see it ain't happening here and no, I definitely don't believe God is going to let everyone in to heaven.
Have a good day.
Evelyn

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RE: SOUND OFF ON ANY TOPIC YOU WANT TO.
9/9/2012 1:15:30 PM

Happy Sunday everyone, wasn't sure where to post this video but figured this thread was as good a place as any. :)

"Narrow Minded"

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RE: SOUND OFF ON ANY TOPIC YOU WANT TO.
9/10/2012 1:24:57 PM


Thomas Sowell

We have heard many times from President Barack Obama how he plans to raise taxes on "millionaires and billionaires," but not on the middle class. Apparently, if you don't happen to be a millionaire or billionaire, you don't have to worry.
But the numbers say otherwise -- and say so big time.
The actual tax increase plans being proposed by Obama do not start with people who have an income of a million dollars a year. They start with people with incomes of $250,000 and up.
That is more than most people make, but it is far short of a million dollars, and miles away from a billion dollars. How many of the people who stand to get hit with Obama's higher tax rate plan are in fact either millionaires or billionaires?
According to the Internal Revenue Service, there are more than 2,700,000 people who earn $250,000 a year or more -- and fewer than one-tenth of them earn a million dollars or more. So more than nine-tenths of the people who would be hit with the higher taxes supposedly aimed at "millionaires and billionaires" are neither.
When businesses advertise one thing and then actually sell something else, that is called "bait and switch" advertising. That is exactly what President Obama is doing with his proposed tax increases on "millionaires and billionaires."
It gets worse when you look at the potential economic consequences of the tax rate increases being proposed. The small proportion of the people targeted for Obama's higher tax rates who are in fact millionaires and billionaires have the least likelihood of actually paying the higher tax rates.
People with annual incomes in the millions or billions of dollars can live pretty high on the hog on a fraction of their income, leaving them with plenty of money to invest. And they can invest it in ways that keep it away from the tax collectors. In addition to tax-exempt bonds, they can invest in other countries that have lower tax rates.
Hard facts show this happening as far back as we have had a federal income tax.
The Constitution of the United States had to be amended in 1913 to permit the federal government to collect income taxes. Almost immediately, very high tax rates on people with very high incomes led to their taking steps to avoid paying those taxes.
In 1920, Secretary of the Treasury David Franklin Houston in the Democratic administration of Woodrow Wilson pointed out that the taxable income of people with incomes of $300,000 and up had been more than cut in half, just from 1916 to 1918. He did not believe that this was because the rich were becoming poorer but "almost certainly through investment by the richer taxpayers in tax-exempt properties."

President Woodrow Wilson himself urged Congress to reconsider whether very high tax rates are in fact "productive of revenue" to the government. He said that, beyond some point, "high rates of income and profits taxes discourage energy, remove the incentive to new enterprise, encourage extravagant expenditures, and produce industrial stagnation with consequent unemployment and other attendant evils." That sounds a lot like where we are today.
Both Democratic and Republican presidents once warned that high tax rates can reduce economic growth. And Secretaries of the Treasury under both Democratic and Republican administrations once pointed out that higher tax rates do not necessarily bring in more tax revenues than lower tax rates. Yet this lesson from more than 90 years ago has still not been learned by those who advocate higher taxes on "the rich" as the answer to our fiscal problems.
In today's global economy, it is even easier for genuine millionaires and billionaires to escape high tax rates by investing in other countries. Not so for the other nine-tenths of the people hit with higher tax rates, such as small business owners or independent professionals such as dentists or realtors, whose sources of income are necessarily local.
Those hardest hit by high tax rates that drive jobs overseas are likely to be those who are unemployed and need jobs here. Ironically, millionaires and billionaires may have the least to lose from higher tax rates on "the rich." But Barack Obama has the most to gain from class warfare rhetoric that wins votes from gullible people.

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