Hi: Glad you put the flak jacket away. lol. Don't need them here anyway, I have the power of delete. LOL. Anyway, kidding aside, you said; ======================================== ... the one "on the road" - usually the husband - got to listen to all the tapes. Most of them were what I call "ra-ra" tapes. ...(snipped)... That lead to one party growing internally while the other remained the same. Often disdain set in where one partner began to see the other partner as "negative." ... (snipped) ... little relationships began to form between partners from other marriages. ... (snipped)... there is a website devoted (oddly) to broken marriages caused by "the business." .... It's pretty sad stuff actually. ======================================== Pardon me if my ethics are showing, but I think a LOT of things humans do is "pretty sad stuff" What you saw happening *in* MLM happens *outside* of MLM to the same degree or more. Statistically speaking, 50% of the population will (or has) cheated on a partner - and they're not all in MLM. Know what I think? I think that the majority of couples "love" each other as long as they have more time apart than together. Put them together 24/7 - 365 days a year and they'll start cracking at the seams. And it doesn't matter if they own a donut franchise or get into MLM. Most people have this idea that marriage is supposed to be 50-50. The truth is that some days it's 60-40, some days it's 40-60, or 90-10, or 10-90, or 80-20, or 20-80 -- and maybe over the course of a couple of decades, it averages out to 50-50. Do you know the top reasons that couples divorce? Infidelity, alcohol abuse and drug abuse. Top three. We have become a self centered, throw away society. Partner boring? Sleep around. Partner negative? Find a new one. Life suck? Get drunk or high so you feel good. Too many people are too small minded and too selfish. They think of gratification today instead of long term gain. It shows in our divorce rate, it shows in our kids, and it shows in the vast number of people attracted to "do nothing get paid" programs. And it's not the plight of MLM, it's the plight of PEOPLE. The couple I know that went Double Diamond in Amway did the road trips together. Listened to the tapes together. Made sales trips together. Etc. They didn't have Poppa bear on the road and Momma bear at home. But that's a couple's choice, too, right? Sure it is. The rare few couples that can stand being together full time - and that understand that it's not 50-50 all the time -- those ones could get into donuts, diamonds, clothing or MLM and it wouldn't matter. They'd do it together and they wouldn't cheat or split up and then go whine on an MLM board. Heh. And for that matter, there's lots of boards where divorced people whine about their ex. That's not unique to MLM either. But that's just MY opinion. : ) Linda

Hi Heather; ========================================= I don't want people to buy my products out of friendship, a sense of guilt, or a sense of obligation. I want to sell my products to someone who is generally interested and will purchase from me again. ========================================= Yes - but you're smarter than the average bear. One thing that's very true that Gary talks about is how people alienate friends and family trying to sell them or recruit them. And that's very true. Which goes to show how many people don't get the simple concept that you do. (like I said, smarter than the average bear..) See, *most* people are afraid of rejection and *most* people couldn't sell their way out of a wet paper bag. Put the two together and that's why *most* people resort to "pitching" the people they expect least rejection from. Here's a funny example. There are two cinnamon bun merchants in the mall. One of them has their cinnamon buns sealed in airtight plastic containers to keep them fresh. They use ads in the paper, and big signs plastered around their kiosk. By the end of the day, they don't look so hot. The second merchant bakes them on premises and has a batch coming out of the oven every 35 minutes or so. You can follow your nose right to their place NO problem. Want to eat it here or take it home? With icing or without? Who do you think sells more? No one likes to be sold - and everyone likes to buy stuff they want. If you can use the cinnamon bun theory to bring customers to you, then you don't HAVE to sell anything. I've never used a sales pitch in my life - never paid for a single ad - and I've lived off my brain for decades. I quit my last "fulltime job" in 1984. But, most people don't know HOW to sell, much less WHO to sell - so they lose their friends, annoy their family and them blame MLM. 'Cause surely, it's not *their* fault, right? Heh. : ) Linda

Well Gary, It looks like my guess missed the target or your grenade was a dud. :-) Althought it may have caused some shrapnel to contact the ladies. Reading the last few post I thought of a statistic my father-in-law liked to quote. 90% of women who died of cancer wore panty hoses.

Howdy forumites, Now we're cracking! (In Oz that mean's "we're getting some action/responses.) "Holy Toledo Batman!" Ain't that a classic saying!? Like... Great Caesar's ghost! Thanks Heather for the comments. I'm still intending to respond to previous ones that you made. But Linda chimed in with some GREAT comments. I can't pass up the immediate opportunity to highlight them. ======================== "We have become a self centered, throw away society. Partner boring? Sleep around. Partner negative? Find a new one. Life suck? Get drunk or high so you feel good. ======================== SPOT ON! Then... ========================= "They didn't have Poppa bear on the road and Momma bear at home. But that's a couple's choice, too, right? Sure it is." ========================= Most amusing expression - Poppa and Momma bear, that is. Made me laugh. The "system" that I was involved in for 10 years preached just that - man on the road, woman handling paperwork and orders and product distribution AND babysitting the kids (big one that!). It is classic "Yager style" MLM marketing. Heh, maybe that is why so many of them are now divorced. Heather, nice to hear the way you offer your products. You don't shove them down people's throats. It's all in the attitude and the approach. I was gonna say this later but I'll mention it now. You referred to "little people" or words to that effect (haven't got that screen up at the moment) - I know what you mean but... never consider yourself as being in the "little" league. To be a big-leaguer you first have to think like a big-leaguer. It doesn't happen any other way. Think of your MLM like an empire and one day it may become just that. What is the MLM formula?: Dream + Work + Opportunity = Success By the way, just for the record, I am not against the MLM structure, I am just strongly opinioned about people's use of the system, or should I say: their misuse of it. I have examined MLM from every angle and it should work a treat but so often it just doesn't. The world is a wonderful place, too bad some people just want to stuff it up for everybody else. That's life, I guess. Hmm, now I am becoming philosophical. Great responses folks. Gary Simpson

------------------------------------------ I have to congratulate you three because like Jack said you're "taking a shot" or as Heather said she's putting her "boxing gloves on." Winston must be a pacifist - LOL! ------------------------------------------- Pacifist? Hmmm. Maybe. But it is hard to come up with an argument for or against when you have no personal experience with the way you are explaining things. No doubt what you say has validity to some degree but I just don't see it being more prevelant in an MLM business in my personal experience. Can one say that an MLM business had something to do with the break up of a relationship? Maybe. But only in the sense that it hastened the eventual outcome of that relationship anyways. At least that's my take on it. It's FRIDAY! WhoooHoooo! Pizza & Movie Night! Tonights Movie was "Kingdom of Heaven"! Good movie!