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Peter Fogel

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
12/18/2009 8:04:29 PM
Quote:

Morning Bell: The Hugo Chavez Case for Cap and Trade

Posted December 18th, 2009 at 9.29am in Energy and Environment.

This morning while President Barack Obama addressed the United Nations Climate Change Conference, his allies were busy trying to shield him of the political fallout from the conference’s apparent failure to produce anything substantial. Throughout the conference, one of the biggest obstacles to an agreement was the insistence of developing nations that rich countries sign a binding treaty that included a large transfer of wealth to the developing world. If there were any doubts that wealth distribution was at the heart of climate cap-and-trade agreements, President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela Hugo Chavez put them to rest when he delivered his anti-capitalist diatribe that drew thunderous applause from the convention’s delegates Wednesday:

One could say, Mr. President, that a ghost is haunting Copenhagen, to paraphrase Karl Marx, the great Karl Marx, a ghost is haunting the streets of Copenhagen, and I think that ghost walks silently through this room, walking around among us, through the halls, out below, it rises, this ghost is a terrible ghost almost nobody wants to mention it: Capitalism is the ghost, almost nobody wants to mention it. It’s capitalism, the people roar, out there, hear them.

Socialism, the other ghost Karl Marx spoke about, which walks here too, rather it is like a counter-ghost. Socialism, this is the direction, this is the path to save the planet, I don’t have the least doubt.

And yesterday’s Wall Street Journal reported on a case study in how international cap and trade facilitates just the type of wealth distribution Chavez and his allies are fighting for:

The Kyoto Protocol of 1997 required signatories to reduce their carbon emissions, and the European Union in 2005 launched its own cap-and-trade system. The program sets a limit on carbon emissions, and companies are issued free carbon allowances that they can buy or sell based on their emissions needs. … Fast forward to this month’s news that Corus, Europe’s second-largest steel producer, is shuttering a giant U.K. steelmaking plant at Redcar, cutting 1,700 jobs. … By closing Redcar’s annual capacity of three million tons of steel, Corus will produce six million fewer tons of CO2. That means more carbon allowances, which could translate into about $300 million a year if credits hit $50. Corus is essentially being paid to lay off British workers.

As part of Kyoto, the United Nations created the Clean Development Mechanism to encourage Western companies to invest in developing-world factories. Participants are financially rewarded based on the amount of carbon they “save” with more efficient plants. … Were Corus to move production to a “clean” Indian factory, it could receive hundreds of millions of dollars annually from the Clean Development Fund. The kicker is that none of this results in fewer carbon emissions. A Corus plant in India might be more efficient by Indian standards, but it will be no more efficient than Redcar.

We should add that all of this is precisely what Kyoto envisioned. … Cap and trade is a scheme that would impose heavy carbon taxes and allowances on U.S. industries, which would then have an incentive to move overseas themselves, or to sell those allowances to overseas companies that could use them to become more competitive against U.S. companies. Like the 1,700 Brits at Redcar, American workers would be the big losers.

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/12/18/morning-bell-the-hugo-chavez-case-for-cap-and-trade/



Hi Jim,

Hugo Chavez the dictator is praising and lauding communism and socialism and the idiots of the world applaud him. How short their memories are. All the communist regimes failed and went bankrupt. The proof of their failure is or should be evident to the world at large and those gimmees cos that's what they are believe that their main objective in life is to bring about the demise of the manufacturing and productive countries and B Hussein Obowma will be their main helper in bringing this about.

Companies reaping profits by closing productive factories is an abomination. People losing their livelihoods will bring about a reverse process wherein the successful countries will become third world countries and the third world countries will sit back cos they are receiving payoffs from them while they are going bankrupt paying them off. In the end you'll have poor people all over the world. The successful countries will no longer be able to help the third world countries cos they joined their ranks and there'll be no one left to lend a helping hand. Makes sense doesn't it?

BUT, according to the global warming climate change scam artists at least the world will be saved and won't be on the brink of destruction. The non existent threat of global warming will have been successfully stopped but the world will be in its final death throes.

What a farce.

Shalom,

Peter
Peter Fogel
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John Leal

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
12/20/2009 4:58:05 AM

Hi Peter

Is Barack Obama bowing yet again to a despot?





The LA Times’ Andrew Malcolm:

So if this photo of Obama leaning way over to stress his point isn’t technically a bow, who do you think in this picture out of Copenhagen is doing the selling/pleading—China’s Wen Jiabao or America’s Democrat president?


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Peter Fogel

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
12/20/2009 11:30:21 AM
Quote:

Hi Peter

Is Barack Obama bowing yet again to a despot?





The LA Times’ Andrew Malcolm:

So if this photo of Obama leaning way over to stress his point isn’t technically a bow, who do you think in this picture out of Copenhagen is doing the selling/pleading—China’s Wen Jiabao or America’s Democrat president?




Technically I don't believe that counts as a bow John but it certainly doesn't show much self confidence or having the upper hand in the discussion.

Wen Jiabao looks quite aloof and disdainful and unfortunately rightfully so. He is the banker and holds all the keys to the kingdom in his hands. And at the rate Obowma is printing money he'll owe him much more before you know it.

What a farce he is.

Shalom,

Peter
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Robert De Merode

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
12/21/2009 7:57:33 PM

Hello Peter,

Not maybe the most obvious forum to set this up, but I finally chose here.

This video content is to me rather debatable, but that is what a forum loves.

Friendly yours,
Robert.

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Jim
Jim Allen

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
12/21/2009 8:20:39 PM
Quote:

Hello Peter,

Not maybe the most obvious forum to set this up, but I finally chose here.

This video content is to me rather debatable, but that is what a forum loves.

Friendly yours,
Robert.



Definitely the right place and I can think of a few more that it belongs too as well.

May Wisdom and the knowledge you gained go with you,



Jim Allen III
Skype: JAllen3D
Everything You Need For Online Success


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