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Peter Fogel

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New Bible Versions REMOVE ‘Father’ And ‘Son Of God’ Because It Offends Islam
1/30/2012 8:22:14 AM
Hello Friends,

I was amazed when I read the below article. We're all aware that certain movements within Christianity and Judaism are pandering to Islam and causing mayhem with their publications and support of this "religion" that preaches hate, murder, suppression of women, subjugation and killing of all infidels, honor killings and as you already know the list goes on and on.

In most cases these movements and groups within Christianity and Judaism that are guilty of pandering are the left and extreme left within these religions. But the changing of the written word in the bible both Old and New Testaments is going to far in my. This seems to be the case and in the below article you'll see that there are groups that are replacing "The Father" with allah and redefining the meaning of "The Son". All this is being done by these Christian organizations in order not to offend the Muslims. This my friends is the epitome of submission and subjugation. The next step will be conversion to Islam in order not to offend these savages.

I would expect the sane and rational Judeo/Christian world to demand that Islam "edit" their hate filled book rather then change the Bible in order to placate and please the Islamic supremacists.

I must admit that the below article caught me by surprise and it's the first I heard about this issue. This is especially surprising when you consider the fate of Christians in Muslim countries. You would expect Christian organizations to strengthen their beliefs rather then to weaken them by new translations that change the original message of the Bible.

Read more about it in the below article.

Shalom,

Peter

New Bible Versions REMOVE ‘Father’ and ‘Son Of God’ Because It Offends Muslims

Mainline Christian organizations are changing their holy scripture to avoid offending Muslims. Not only does this violate their scripture, but it also defeats the purpose of their mission--to share the Gospel. If mainline Christian organizations fear Muslims so much that they have to edit what they believe to be the Word of God, how far can they be from submission? Where are the righteous, the outraged, the proud?

It is Islamic authorities who should be excising the quran and hadith of the ideology that calls for jihad, genocide, subjugation and oppression of women, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and all non-Muslims. It is the ummah who should be calling for sharia bans. Instead, the Christians are bastardizing their scripture? The Muslims refer to Christians in their daily prayers as "those who are led astray" (Muslims curse Christians and Jews multiple times in daily prayers). This madness validates their contempt and supremacism:

Concerned Christian missionaries, Bible translators, pastors, and national church leaders have come together with a public petition to stop these organizations. They claim a public petition is their last recourse because meetings with these organizations’ leaders, staff resignations over this issue and criticism and appeals from native national Christians concerned about the translationshave failed to persuade these agencies to retain “Father” and “Son” in the text of all their translations.”

Biblical Missiology, a ministry of Boulder, Colorado-based Horizon International, is sponsoring the petition. The main issues of this controversy surround new Arabic and Turkish translations. Here are three examples native speakers give:

First, Wycliffe and SIL have produced Stories of the Prophets, an Arabic Bible that uses an Arabic equivalent of “Lord” instead of “Father” and “Messiah” instead of “Son.”

Second, Frontiers and SIL have produced Meaning of the Gospel of Christ , an Arabic translation which removes “Father” in reference to God and replaces it with “Allah,” and removes or redefines “Son.”

For example, the verse which Christians use to justify going all over the world to make disciples, thus fulfilling the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19) reads, “Cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiah and his Holy Spirit” instead of “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Rev. Bassam Madany, an Arab American who runs Middle East Resources, terms these organization’s efforts as “a western imperialistic attempt that’s inspired by cultural anthropology, and not by biblical theology.” (more here)

Report: American Bible translators bowdlerize scriptures to avoid offending Muslims: no "Father" and "Son" Jihadwatch

If this is true, for the parties they are trying not to offend, anything short of Islam -- of professing that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is his messenger -- would be "offensive." This is not making Christianity more palatable. It is de-Christianizing it. It is manufacturing yet another Christian heresy.

Indeed, for many denominations, the validity of baptism depends on the words used: "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." No euphemisms, no nicknames: for example, trial balloons aiming to portray a more gender-neutral God have already been burst: the use of "Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier" in baptism has been rejected by the Catholic Church, if not others.

Those who truly believe they are winning souls for Christ would not risk the validity of baptism, and those who are genuinely convinced that they possess the truth will not apologize or worry it is offensive.

As a technical matter, one wonders how the translators handle the words: "Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22). And "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

One last bit of holy writ: "You might as well fall flat on your face as lean over too far backward." - James Thurber

"'Father' and 'Son' Ousted from the Trinity in New Bible Translations," by Hussein Hajj Wario for the Yahoo! Contributor Network, January 27 (thanks to CGW):

A controversy is brewing over three reputable Christian organizations, which are based in North America, whose efforts have ousted the words "Father" and "Son" from new Bibles. Wycliffe Bible Translators, Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL) and Frontiers are under fire for "producing Bibles that remove "Father," "Son" and "Son of God" because these terms are offensive to Muslims." Concerned Christian missionaries, Bible translators, pastors, and national church leaders have come together with a public petition to stop these organizations. They claim a public petition is their last recourse because meetings with these organizations' leaders, staff resignations over this issue and criticism and appeals from native national Christians concerned about the translations "have failed to persuade these agencies to retain "Father" and "Son" in the text of all their translations."

Clearly, they fail to appreciate the far-reaching ramifications that Christians not only may dare, but are commanded to call on the Creator of the Universe as "Father." That fundamentally re-wires one's relationship with God and describes a unique intimacy and bond of love that ought not be squandered to score short-term points.

Biblical Missiology, a ministry of Boulder, Colorado-based Horizon International, is sponsoring the petition.

The main issues of this controversy surround new Arabic and Turkish translations. Here are three examples native speakers give:

First, Wycliffe and SIL have produced Stories of the Prophets, an Arabic Bible that uses an Arabic equivalent of "Lord" instead of "Father" and "Messiah" instead of "Son."
Second, Frontiers and SIL have produced Meaning of the Gospel of Christ , an Arabic translation which removes "Father" in reference to God and replaces it with "Allah," and removes or redefines "Son." For example, the verse which Christians use to justify going all over the world to make disciples, thus fulfilling the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19) reads, "Cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiah and his Holy Spirit" instead of "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Rev. Bassam Madany, an Arab American who runs Middle East Resources, terms these organization's efforts as "a western imperialistic attempt that's inspired by cultural anthropology, and not by biblical theology."

Third, Frontiers and SIL have produced a new Turkish translation of the Gospel of Matthew that uses Turkish equivalents of "guardian" for "Father" and "representative" or "proxy" for "Son." To Turkish church leader Rev. Fikret Böcek, "This translation is 'an all-American idea' with absolutely no respect for the 'sacredness' of Scripture, or even of the growing Turkish church."

SIL has issued a public response stating "all personnel subscribe to a statement of faith which affirms the Trinity, Christ's deity, and the inspiration of Scripture." However, in the same statement, which is similar to Wycliffe's, it claims "word-for-word translation of these titles would communicate an incorrect meaning (i.e. that God had physical, sexual relationships with Mary) [sic]," thus justifying substituting "Father" and "Son" in new translations. Calls and emails to Wycliffe and SIL to clarify their positions were not returned. Frontiers responded to calls with articles that critics have already dismissed as skirting omissions of "Father" and "Son" in new Bible translations.

The point about sexual connotations is baloney. Many of these countries have, or once had indigenous Christian populations with scriptures in indigenous languages where this was not a problem. If they're coming up with something untoward, they need better translators.


Peter Fogel
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RE: HSIG - VIDEO: Relatives Praise Fogel Family Massacre On 'Palestinian' TV
1/30/2012 8:49:48 AM
Hello Friends,

I'm sure many of you remember the Fogel family massacre by 2 jihadi terrorists last year. Last week both of these savages were sentenced to multiple life sentences for their terrorism.

In the so called 'moderate' Fatah/PLO controlled Palestinian Authority these savages were praised and venerated. In the below article you'll find all the details in addition to a video in which these jihadi terrorists are praised, lauded and honored. You'll also find the sad but violently graphic pictures of the Fogel family in addition to the celebrations in the PA and Gaza after the massacre.

As Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said:
Quote:
"Is it possible to make peace when cold-blooded child murderers are venerated as heroes and legends?"
These people aren't interested in peace but the annihilation of Israel and it's people.

Shalom,

Peter


VIDEO: Relatives Praise Fogel Family Massacre On 'Palestinian' TV


Danny Ayalon, Deputy Foreign Minister of the State of Israel, tweeted: "Is it possible to make peace when cold-blooded child murderers are venerated as heroes and legends?"

Of course not. Is "peace" possible when the root cause is never acknowledged? When Islamic antisemitism calls for the annihilation of the Jews and has for centuries? It's in the quran and it is the motive for Islam's war on the Jews. The destruction of the Jewish state is an Islamic imperative. The existence of Israel is an attack on Muslims. See In Ishmael's House: A History of Jews in Muslim Lands by Martin Gilbert




Watch: Relatives praise Fogel family murderer on Palestinian TV

Mother, aunt of Palestinian who took part in Itamar massacre appear on show focusing on prisoners held in Israel Elior Levy

During a program aired on Palestinian television last week, the aunt of one of the Palestinians who took part in the brutal murder of five members of the Fogel family in the West Bank last march referred to him as a "hero" and "legend."

In August an Israeli court sentenced Hakim Awad to five consecutive life sentences for his part in the Itamar settlement massacre.

Itamar massacre:

Awad's cousin Amjad was also sentenced to five life sentences and an additional seven years for brutally stabbing to death Udi and Ruth Fogel and three of their children: Yoav (11) Elad (4) and four-month-old baby Hadas, last March.

In response to the aunt's comments, the show's host said, "We also wish them (murderers) well."

The aunt went on to read a poem she had written in the murderers' honor, while Hakim Awad's mother sent her regards to her son and proudly mentioned that he was the perpetrator of the Itamar massacre.

No one in the West (except for Jew-haters, of course) could conceive of celebrating such a thing. But this cold-blooded murder is exalted in the Muslim world. There is no peace with savages.

The Fogel family
Muslim antisemitism 7

Muslims anti-semitism

Three-year-old Jewish boy

Muslim antisemtism11

Father and 3-month-old infant, Hadas

Muslim anti-semitism8
Three year old, Elad
Muslim antisemtism9
Eleven-year-old Jewish son, Yoav

Muslim anti-semtism 9

The family has given permission to show these photographs so that civilized men would understand what the Jews face from their Islamic enemies. This is the first time the people of Israel have done this. The world ignores the Jewish dead; what choice did they have?

Devout Muslims murder Jewish children and babies in their sleep, simply because they are Jewish. Forgive me for publishing these pictures, but we live in the modern age of the barbarian -- and the media, the political elites and the chattering class scrub, and in some cases glamorize, the savagery of these bloodthirsty anti-humans. One can only imagine the horror of the scene of the Islamic attack on a Jewish day school in Jerusalem back in 2008 that left six Jews slaughtered, which over 84% of the Muslims in Gaza supported. The OIC-driven UN failed to condemn that genocide as well.

Muslims Celebrate Mass Murder with Passing Out Candy to Children'

Israel: Muslim Slaughters Jewish Family of Five, including an 11-year-old, a 3-year-old and an infant — all stabbed in their sleep

From reports:

On Friday night at 10:30 pm the terrorists entered the house through the living room picture window. They did not notice the 6-year-old boy sleeping on the couch and continued on to the bedroom where they slashed the throats of the father and newborn baby who were sleeping there. The mother came out of the bathroom and was stabbed on its threshold. The evidence shows that she tried to fight the terrorists. They then slashed the throat of the 11-year old-son who was reading in bed. They did not notice the 2-year old asleep in his bed, but murdered the 3-year old with two stabs to his heart. After that, they locked the door, exited through the window and escaped.

The 12-year-old daughter returned home at 00:30 and found the door locked. She asked a neighbor, Rabbi Yaakov Cohen, of the Itamar Yeshiva, to help her. He brought a weapon with him once he noticed tracks and mud near the house. The two woke up the 6-year old sleeping in the living room by calling through the window and when he opened the door, the Rabbi returned to his home. When she entered the bedrooms, the young daughter saw the horrific bloodsoaked scene and ran out of the house screaming. The neighbor ran back and fired several shots in the air to alert security personnel. Within a short time, large police and IDF forces arrived and began intensive searches to see if the terrorists were still in the community. At 03:30 a.m., military trackers discovered footprints leading to the Arab village of Avrata.

CiF Watch: More photos of Gazans in Rafah celebrating deadly terrorist attack in Itamar

Images from Gaza.

Muslim sweets

A Palestinian man offers sweets to a woman in the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah on March 12, 2011 to celebrate an attack which killed five Israelis (Getty Images)

Muslim sweet2

The broadcast was aired as part of a weekly show on the Palestinian state-run station called "For You," which focuses on Palestinian prisoners held in Israel.

The broadcast was reported by Palestinian Media Watch – an Israel-based media watchdog organization.


Peter Fogel
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RE: HSIG - U.K.: Girls As Young As Nine Being Forced Into Marriage
1/30/2012 11:24:11 AM
Hello Friends,

The big mo set a wonderful standard for Muslims to follow and emulate and that's marrying, molesting and having sex with minors as young as 9 years old. Yep, one of the great accomplishments of the murderer and pedophile. We know that in the Muslim countries this is still taking place and allowed according to shariah law, which governs most of the Muslim countries. You wouldn't expect it to be happening in western countries who find this great accomplishment and tradition of the big mo abhorrent, abusive and criminal. But it is happening and it appears that in the UK it's spreading throughout the Muslim communities. I wonder if any have doubts it's happening throughout Eurabia?

I wonder what we'd find in the United States if this was investigated properly?

Read the rest in the below article.

Shalom,

Peter

Nine. There's that number again. Now, everyone knows only the greasiest of greasy Islamophobes retail the notion that the practice of marrying girls as young as nine has something to do with Muhammad marrying Aisha when she was six and consummating the marriage when she was nine, and he was six times her age at fifty-four. So, all of these people continuing the practice in the remotest, most undeveloped areas Afghanistan and Yemen out of Islamic piety must actually be reading American or European blogs, right?

Wrong. For example, there is Sahih Bukhari 7.62.88: "The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)."

It is Islam's own texts and traditions that cause the practice to persist in places far removed from one another, and to appear where it had previously been unimaginable -- for example, Britain. "Islington girls forced into marriage at the age of nine," by Pavan Amara for the Islington Tribune, January 27:

An alarming number of under-age girls – some as young as nine – are being forced into marriage in Islington, according to a leading campaign group.

The Iranian and Kurdish Women’s Rights Organisation (IKWRO) claim that at least 30 girls in the borough were forced into marriage in 2010.

The practice was condemned by the Imam of Finsbury Park Mosque, who said such marriages were against Islam and “unacceptable”.

He pledged to invalidate any marriage which he said were carried out by “back-street Imams”.

IKWRO, which made headlines last month when they revealed there had been almost 3,000 “honour-based” violence cases in 2010, has shown the Tribune records which revealed at least three 11-year-old girls and two nine-year-olds had been forced into marriage with older men within Islington. The oldest girls involved were 16.

They have warned that hundreds of Islington girls could be suffering sexual, emotional and physical scars as a result of the child marriages every year and are calling for teachers, social workers and police to be better trained to spot and manage the abuse.

Information from the Ministry of Justice, following a Freedom of Information request, revealed that 32 Forced Marriage Protection Order applications were made for children under 16 in Britain last year.

Six of these were made for under-16s within Islington at the Royal Courts of Justice, although these were not necessarily made for Islington residents.

At the Islington court, “five or fewer” orders were made to protect children between the ages of 9-11.

The orders are a form of injunction that threaten legal punishment if marriage takes place due to emotional or physical force.

In most cases, the children fear they will be killed if they reveal the truth to anybody, while others believe they will be separated from their families and taken into social services’ care.

Dianna Nammi, director of IKWRO, explained that the girls are married in a mosque’s sharia court. This means they are not legally married according to British law, rendering the Home Office unable to recognise or prove the abuse.

“They are still expected to carry out their wifely duties, though, and that includes sleeping with their husband,” she said.

“They have to cook for them, wash their clothes, everything. They are still attending schools in Islington, struggling to do their primary school homework, and at the same time being practically raped by a middle-aged man regularly and being abused by their families. So they are a wife, but in a primary school uniform.

That's not being "practically" raped. The practice will diminish when the law comes after the "husbands" and families with the force with which they would pursue child molesters and human traffickers. This is rape, and it is human trafficking.

“The reason it doesn’t get out is because they are too terrified to speak out, and also the control their families have over them is impossible to imagine if you’re not going through it. The way it is covered up is so precise, almost unspeakable.”

Ms Nammi said that one 13-year-old had to sneak out of a maths lesson to contact the group, because she was being monitored so closely by her family.

“Her teacher didn’t notice because she said she’d gone to the toilet, but when she got home that day she was beaten,” she said.

“Her father knew she hadn’t been in maths because he had sent an uncle to spy on who she was talking to through the classroom window.”

Ms Nammi said that the girls are married off to family friends or family members to stop them from losing their virginity to anyone not chosen by their father.

As young as nine. Heaven knows they're all going to become wild party animals at age 10.

However, the incentive is also often financial.

The financial aspect supports the human trafficking angle:

“The girl automatically becomes her husband’s property, so he takes financial responsibility for her,” said Ms Nammi.

“In fact, often the husband has to start contributing to the girl’s family, so it becomes a way of bringing in another salary.

“Who are girls going to tell? Often they feel like teachers at school won’t understand what their families are like. They will think they’re like Western families, and won’t understand that if they pass on anything at all that they’ve been told to the family, then the girl will be killed. So they just chose not to tell at all.”....
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Peter Fogel
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Helen Elias

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RE: HSIG - U.K.: Girls As Young As Nine Being Forced Into Marriage
1/30/2012 8:01:17 PM





Children are forced into marriage and raped ....or killed. What a nightmare this evil religion is ...the most evil religion in the world.


Islamic parents found guilty of murdering daughters

Associated Press - 1/29/2012 4:35:00 PM

Associated Press logo small 2KINGSTON, Ontario - A jury on Sunday found an Afghan father, his wife and their son guilty of killing three teenage sisters and a co-wife in what the judge described as "cold-blooded, shameful murders" resulting from a "twisted concept of honor."

The jury took 15 hours to find Mohammad Shafia, 58; his wife Tooba Yahya, 42; and their son Hamed, 21, each guilty of four counts of first-degree murder in a case that shocked and riveted Canadians from coast to coast.

First-degree murder carries an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years.

After the verdict was read, the three defendants again declared their innocence in the killings of sisters Zainab, 19, Sahar 17, and Geeti, 13, as well as Rona Amir Mohammad, 52, Shafia's childless first wife in a polygamous marriage.

Their bodies were found June 30, 2009, in a car submerged in a canal in Kingston, Ontario, where the family had stopped for the night on their way home to Montreal from Niagara Falls, Ontario.

Prosecutors said the defendants allegedly killed the three teenage sisters because they dishonored the family by defying its disciplinarian rules on dress, dating, socializing and going online. Shafia's first wife was living with him and his second wife. The polygamous relationship, if revealed, could have resulted in their deportation.

The prosecution alleged it was a case of premeditated murder, staged to look like an accident after it was carried out. Prosecutors said the defendants drowned their victims elsewhere on the site, placed their bodies in the car and pushed it into the canal.

Defense lawyers said the deaths were accidental. They said the Nissan car accidentally plunged into the canal after the eldest daughter, Zainab, took it for a joy ride with her sisters and her father's first wife. Hamed said he watched the accident, although he didn't call police from the scene.

After the jury returned the verdicts, Mohammad Shafia, speaking through a translator, said, "We are not criminal, we are not murderer, we didn't commit the murder and this is unjust."

His weeping wife, Tooba, also declared the verdict unjust, saying, "I am not a murderer, and I am a mother, a mother." Their son, Hamed, speaking in English said, "I did not drown my sisters anywhere."

But Judge Robert Maranger was unmoved, saying the evidence clearly supported their conviction for "the planned and deliberate murder of four members of your family."

"It is difficult to conceive of a more despicable, more heinous crime ... the apparent reason behind these cold-blooded, shameful murders was that the four completely innocent victims offended your completely twisted concept of honor ... that has absolutely no place in any civilized society."

Outside court, prosecutor Gerard Laarhuis said the verdict is a reflection of Canadian values that he hopes will resonate. "This verdict sends a very clear message about our Canadian values and the core principles in a free and democratic society that all Canadians enjoy and even visitors to Canada enjoy," Laarhuis said to cheers of approval from onlookers.

The family had left Afghanistan in 1992 and lived in Pakistan, Australia and Dubai before settling in Canada in 2007. Shafia, a wealthy businessman, married Yahya because his first wife could not have children.

The prosecution painted a picture of a household controlled by a domineering Shafia, with Hamed keeping his sisters in line and doling out discipline when his father was away on frequent business trips to Dubai.

The months leading up to the deaths were not happy ones in the Shafia household, according to evidence presented at trial. Zainab, the oldest daughter, was forbidden to attend school for a year because she had a young Pakistani-Canadian boyfriend, and she fled to a shelter, terrified of her father, the court was told.

The prosecution said her parents found condoms in Sahar's room as well as photos of her wearing short skirts and hugging her Christian boyfriend, a relationship she had kept secret. Geeti was becoming almost impossible to control: skipping school, failing classes, being sent home for wearing revealing clothes and stealing, while declaring to authority figures that she wanted to be placed in foster care, according to the prosecution.

Shafia's first wife wrote in a diary that her husband beat her and "made life a torture," while his second wife called her a servant.

The prosecution presented wire taps and cell phone records from the Shafia family in court to support their honor killing theory. The wiretaps, which capture Shafia spewing vitriol about his dead daughters, calling them treacherous and whores and invoking the devil to defecate on their graves, were a focal point of the trial.

"There can be no betrayal, no treachery, no violation more than this," Shafia said on one recording. "Even if they hoist me up onto the gallows ... nothing is more dear to me than my honor."

Defense lawyers argued that at no point in the intercepts do the accused say they drowned the victims.


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RE: HSIG - VIDEO: Relatives Praise Fogel Family Massacre On 'Palestinian' TV
1/30/2012 8:05:22 PM

Peter,

Were these murdered Fogels related to you?

Those are horrific pictures. I didn't 'quote' because I didn't want to have run into them more often. :((

Helen
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