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Peter Fogel

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Re: Does this concern YOU? It Does YOU just Don't Know it yet
3/4/2008 11:16:47 PM

Hey Neil,

The link to your forum leads to an error page.

Oh well, guess I'll just have to find it on my own. :)

Shalom,

Peter

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Lydia Fokina

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Re: Does this concern YOU? It Does YOU just Don't Know it yet
3/5/2008 3:59:59 AM

Hello Jim, link to this clip I received by skype from my American girlfriend yesterday,  I passed it to Peter, asked him to clear me nuances.

Here it is information from Russian source: http://www.kommentator.ru/policy/2007/p0901-1.html

"Североамериканский союз", Канада, Мексика и США станут одной страной?


Три государства в лице США, Канады и Мексики сравнялись с числом крупных корпораций для создания Североамериканского союза (СА), также известного как проект "Глубокая интеграция". Данный ход объединит страны под контролем США.

Суть интеграции состоит в том, что Мексике и Канаде придется согласовать свои законы и права в соответствии с имперскими амбициями американского правительства. Планируется создать структуру, параллельную Европейскому Союзу...

and from http://www.sedmoycanal.com/news.php3?id=209198

Северо-Американский Союз выше американского закона?


Журнал «Human Events» продолжает публикацию статей, разоблачающих угрозу Америке со стороны создаваемого президентом Бушем Северо-Американского Союза - эдаких «Соединенных Штатов Северной Америки» по модели Евросоюза - с Мексикой и Канадой. 19 июня в электронной версии журнала была опубликована очередная статья Дж. Корси на эту тему под заголовком «Северо-Американский Союз затопчет американский Верховный суд».

Не то чтобы консервативные американцы были очень довольны своим Верховным судом, проявляющим, по их мнению, излишний судебный активизм. Но одно дело критиковать судей Верховного суда и их попытки интерпретировать определенным образом конституционный закон, при наличии все-таки в этом суде различных мнений и разных идеологических направлений (что выгодно отличает его от израильского БАГАЦа), и совсем другое – согласиться с появлением внешней власти, вообще не подчиненной американской конституции и не связанной американскими законами, но прерогативы которой будут, тем не менее, выше прерогатив Верховного суда США. Для законопослушных американцев, убежденных в справедливости конституционного закона и американской системы правосудия, это немыслимо.

Возможно именно в силу абсурдности политики, направленной на добровольную постепенную отмену американской независимости, большинством американцев сообщения о том, что такая политика проводится в жизнь, всерьез не воспринимаются. В крайнем случае, они скажут: «Да ну, глупости, ведь не сошел же президент и вся его администрация с ума! Этого не может быть, просто потому что этого не может быть!» И именно подобное отношение со стороны большинства граждан обеспечивает администрации Буша (как раньше его предшественникам) возможность беспрепятственно проводить в жизнь именно такую «невозможную» политику.

При Министерстве Торговли уже давно существует и активно работает отдел под названием «Партнерство ради безопасности и благосостояния Северной Америки» и под эгидой конторы, ответственной за проведение в жизнь Ассоциации Свободной Торговли Северной Америки (NAFTA). Возглавляет эту контору Гери Уорд. Одним из ключевых моментов плана является расширение полномочий трибуналов NAFTA и включение их в судебную систему Северо-Американского Союза, которая будет обладать властью превышающей американский закон, и прерогативами, превышающими Верховный суд США. Пока что это касается «всего лишь» вопросов, связанных с трехсторонней политической и экономической интеграцией США, Канады и Мексики...

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Peter Fogel

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Re: Does this concern YOU? It Does YOU just Don't Know it yet
3/5/2008 4:21:32 AM

Hi Lydia,

You sure did and after I received the short clip from you a good friend sent me the link for the Zeitgeist movie. The short clip u sent me is part of this movie.

I'd recommend that you watch it.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

I wish I understood Russian but alas I don't. Why don't you give us an idea what you wrote there.

Shalom,

Peter

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Lydia Fokina

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Re: Does this concern YOU? It Does YOU just Don't Know it yet
3/5/2008 4:38:22 AM

Hi Peter, interesting clips, but I really don't understand nuances there, I am not so fluent in English yet...

For those who is not fluent in Russian yet, read in English:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15623

Jerome R. Corsi
North American Union Would Trump U.S. Supreme Court

The Bush Administration is pushing to create a North American Union out of the work on-going in the Department of Commerce under the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America in the NAFTA office headed by Geri Word. A key part of the plan is to expand the NAFTA tribunals into a North American Union court system that would have supremacy over all U.S. law, even over the U.S. Supreme Court, in any matter related to the trilateral political and economic integration of the United States, Canada and Mexico.

Right now, Chapter 11 of the NAFTA agreement allows a private NAFTA foreign investor to sue the U.S. government if the investor believes a state or federal law damages the investor’s NAFTA business.

Under Chapter 11, NAFTA establishes a tribunal that conducts a behind closed-doors “trial” to decide the case according to the legal principals established by either the World Bank’s International Centre for the Settlement of Investment Disputes or the UN’s Commission for International Trade Law. If the decision is adverse to the U.S., the NAFTA tribunal can impose its decision as final, trumping U.S. law, even as decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. U.S. laws can be effectively overturned and the NAFTA Chapter 11 tribunal can impose millions or billions of dollars in fines on the U.S. government, to be paid ultimately by the U.S. taxpayer.

On Aug. 9, 2005, a three-member NAFTA tribunal dismissed a $970 million claim filed by Methanex Corp., a Canadian methanol producer challenging California laws that regulate against the gasoline additive MTBE. The additive MTBE was introduced into gasoline to reduce air pollution from motor vehicle emissions. California regulations restricted the use of MTBE after the additive was found to contaminate drinking water and produce a health hazard. Had the case been decided differently, California’s MTBE regulations would have been overturned and U.S. taxpayers forced to pay Methanex millions in damages.

While this case was decided favorably to U.S. laws, we can rest assured that sooner or later a U.S. law will be overruled by the NAFTA Chapter 11 adjudicative procedure, as long as the determinant law adjudicated by the NAFTA Chapter 11 tribunals continues to derive from World Court or UN law. Once a North American Union court structure is in place can almost certainly predict that a 2nd Amendment challenge to the right to bear arms is as inevitable under a North American Union court structure as is a challenge to our 1st Amendment free speech laws. Citizens of both Canada and Mexico cannot freely own firearms. Nor can Canadians or Mexicans speak out freely without worrying about “hate crimes” legislation or other political restrictions on what they may choose to say.

Like it or not, NAFTA Chapter 11 tribunals already empower foreign NAFTA investors and corporations to challenge the sovereignty of U.S. law in the United States. Sen. John Kerry (D.-Mass.) has been quoted as saying, “When we debated NAFTA, not a single word was uttered in discussing Chapter 11. Why? Because we didn’t know how this provision would play out. No one really knew just how high the stakes would get.” Again, we have abundant proof that Congress is unbelievably lax when it comes to something as fundamental as reading or understanding the complex laws our elected legislators typically pass.

Under the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) plan expressed in May 2005 for building NAFTA into a North American Union, the stakes are about to get even higher. A task force report titled “Building a North American Community” was written to provide a blueprint for the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America agreement signed by President Bush in his meeting with President Fox and Canada’s then-Prime Minister Paul Martin in Waco, Tex., on March 23, 2005.

The CFR plan clearly calls for the establishment of a “permanent tribunal for North American dispute resolution” as part of the new regional North American Union (NAU) governmental structure that is proposed to go into place in 2010. As the CFR report details on page 22:

The current NAFTA dispute-resolution process is founded on ad hoc panels that are not capable of building institutional memory or establishing precedent, may be subject to conflicts of interest, and are appointed by authorities who may have an incentive to delay a given proceeding. As demonstrated by the efficiency of the World Trade Organization (WTO) appeal process, a permanent tribunal would likely encourage faster, more consistent and more predictable resolution of disputes. In addition, there is a need to review the workings of NAFTA’s dispute-settlement mechanism to make it more efficient, transparent, and effective.

Robert Pastor of American University, the vice chairman of the CFR task force report, provided much of the intellectual justification for the formation of the North American Union. He has repeatedly argued for the creation of a North American Union “Permanent Tribunal on Trade and Investment.” Pastor understands that a “permanent court would permit the accumulation of precedent and lay the groundwork for North American business law.” Notice, Pastor says nothing about U.S. business law or the U.S. Supreme Court. In the view of the globalists pushing toward the formation of the North American Union, the U.S. is a partisan nation-state whose limitations of economic protectionism and provincial self-interest are outdated and as such must be transcended, even if the price involves sacrificing U.S. national sovereignty.

When it comes to the question of illegal immigrants, Pastor’s solution is to erase our borders with Mexico and Canada so we can issue North American Union passports to all citizens. In his testimony to the Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee on June 9, 2005, Pastor made this exact argument: “Instead of stopping North Americans on the borders, we ought to provide them with a secure, biometric Border Pass that would ease transit across the border like an E-Z pass permits our cars to speed though toll booths.”

Even Pastor worries about the potential for North American Unions to overturn U.S. laws that he likes. Regarding environmental laws, Pastor’s testimony to the Trilateral Commission in November 2002 was clear on this point: “Some narrowing or clarification of the scope of Chapter 11 panels on foreign investment is also needed to permit the erosion of environmental rules.” Evidently it did not occur to Pastor that the way to achieve the protection he sought was to leave the sovereignty of U.S. and the supremacy of the U.S. Supreme Court intact.

The executive branch under the Bush Administration is quietly putting in place a behind-the-scenes trilateral regulatory scheme, evidently without any direct congressional input, that should provide the rules by which any NAFTA or NAU court would examine when adjudicating NAU trade disputes. The June 2005 report by the SPP working groups organized in the U.S. Department of Commerce, clearly states the goal:

We will develop a trilateral Regulatory Cooperative Framework by 2007 to support and enhance existing, as well as encourage new cooperation among regulators, including at the outset of the regulatory process.

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Shaye Richardson

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Re: Does this concern YOU? It Does YOU just Don't Know it yet
3/5/2008 5:24:10 AM

Thanks very much for sharing that at the risk of ridicule from your peers. I applaud your courage.

Global issue to say the least!



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