Hi Nick,

Just to be clear, I have no quarrel if a student wishes to pray in school. But schools are not places of worship, otherwise the administration would have to pick which belief, tradition, religion, sect, or denomination was most appropriate. And who gives them authority to do that?

So, yes to the STUDENT'S right to pray (indeed, everyone has a right to pray according to their own faith and practice...and a right not to if that's their choice), but no to the school being involved in that process.

The larger issue raised at the begining of this topic, however, was discipline and how parents handle their kids. I see it all too often that parents are so desperate to be their kids' friends that they lose any sense of teaching them right from wrong. I see teachers (including myself) struggling to maintain order and discipline (in the concentration sense, not the punishment sense) because children are brought up to believe that they're so special they can do whatever they want.

A short while ago, Tara and I watched a series of movies set in a small town in the 1800s. There were a lot of words in there like "propriety," "unbecoming," and "courteous." This is the type of language we just don't hear nowadays. I'm 31 years old, and I have a choir full of children who don't understand why they can't call me Steve instead of Mr. Baric.

I think we'll never solve the religion in schools issue to everyone's satisfaction. But I also think we can all agree that we need a renaissance of common courtesy and decency. Guys, start standing up when your wife enters the room. In fact, stand when your father enters the room too, to show your respect. Hold the door for women. Say please and thank you.

Girls, stop buying t-shirts with slogans that tout how great it is to be a bitch....and that one that says "boys are dumb..throw rocks at them." This doesn't help. Consider using concepts like "lady-like" behaviour for a change. Society isn't chaotic because of a lack of religion; in fact, check around and you'll see there's probably more religion than we know how to handle these days
Society has gone wild because we forgot how to treat each other with respect, and how to expect that same behaviour of our children whom WE have trained. This to me is the bigger issue.

Whatever happened to the idea of unconditional respect? It's not "I'll show you respect when you show me some." It's "I respect you automatically and unconditionally, until you do something to lose it." Let's just start with that, and maybe we can effect some change in this world without playing the religion card and stepping on peoples' toes (and without carrying on these arguments that have been raging for generations!).

Just a thought.

Hi Carla

Steve made several good points and then there are very interestings points like yours. This is why we can talk about this in a civil matter like adults and respect each others opinion over the internet - because of freedom of speech!

JERILYN. I can't put this into words SO

I'll tell ya Steve, your thoughts are always welcome! This is why I pick subjects that brings us all together.

Mum was the boss in our house.  Even Dad knew this.  I didn't have to be beaten to learn this, either.

I'm not saying I never gotten whacked on the bum once in a while, but I was never caned, strapped or whipped.  I think the whack was mostly an attention getter, then I got the "talking to".  Seems to have worked since I turned out alright.  But, even this takes effort and many of today's parents aren't even doing that much!  Heck, I've seen parents who let their kids run wild in stores or where ever (not very safe if one's running amok) and never say one word to them.  When they do finally intervene, it's in a voice loud enough to be heard a city block away!  When my niece misbehaved in a public place I immediately stopped what I was doing and out we went.  No toy, no treat and no groceries (okay, I got the groceries later when some one could sit with my niece).  She learned very quickly that she was not going to go places if she did not act right.  Mum was the same way with us, but we learned, too.

Your article is informative and right on.  Consistency is the key in establishing control.  Again, it still requires effort on the parent's part.

Kate