Hi Vi, Sorry, I did not start out intending to write something this long, I just get carried away on this subject. Sure, people can (and do) believe what ever they want irregardless of any evidence as to the truth of what they believe. Some people, who live in first world countries and who should know better, still believe the world is flat. Others believe there was never any holocaust in spite of those who were there, both survivors and guard testifying it happened, in spite of the records and films, in spite of the testimony and films by the Allied troops who liberated those who were left. Because of the Christian religion, and in spite of the over whelming proof they are wrong: A. Some falsely believe evolution is not both a theory & a fact. Of course, they can not explain why fetuses have gill slits & we have tail bones, tonsils and appendixes we no longer need. B. That homosexuals are not born that way in spite of the fact there are homosexual insects, birds, mammals, fish, animals and reptiles. C. And other things like stem cell research, abortion, sex education I am not going to go deeper into now. And while anyone can have their own opinion on any subject, they can NOT have their own facts. Facts are true for all and it makes no difference if some people accept them or not. (Like the facts prove our war in Iraq is both fully justified and are a necessary part of our war on terror.) And like anyone can present their views on things, others, like me, can disagree with those views and beliefs. ------------------------- Hi Nick, I believe in many things like proof, truth, honesty, logic, knowledge, rational and critical thinking, facts, experience and open-mindedness to NEW things. (There is no use in going over and over things I know to be false). I KNOW belief in a god is NOT necessary to be a good, kind, caring, generous, compassionate, giving, fair, truthful, honest, courageous and brave person. A belief in a god, or gods, is NOT necessary to successfully fight off diseases, hardships or to face death. And certainly NOT necessary to reach success in any areas of life a person chooses to excel at. Atheists ARE the leaders, or among the leaders, in EVERY field other than religion and perhaps, rap music. Atheists are leaders in music, literature, politics, communications, inventions, science, arts, business and in helping others. We Atheists have fought for America in EVERY war America has ever been in. (And I am sure that applies to Canada as well.) I have nearly died (that's been killed) quickly more than a few times in cars. And since I have also been a spelunker, deep sea diver, paratrooper, mountain climber, scuba diver, fire walker and bungee jumper, I have had some close calls there as well. (At least two were very close.) And I have also lain in a hospital bed believing I was going die on at least 3 different occasions. (The attending doctor had told my friends I was going to die during two of them.) I've looked down at myself laying in a hospital bed watching the doctor and nurses do their thing. Only since I know a lack of oxygen to the brain causes such things, I know it was all in my mind and did not happen in the real world. NONE of those times have I ever even come close to asking a god for help or whatever. I think we Atheists must be psychology stronger than you believers are as we do not need any gods help to fight off danger, face death, diseases and/or to succeed in life. Nope, as far as any god or gods are concerned, we do it on our own. Nick, if you knew enough about the various religions and about gods, you would know there were MANY DIFFERENT TYPES of gods and that humans have INVENTED OVER THIRTY THOUSAND DIFFERENT gods SO FAR! So NO Nick, it is NOT the SAME god. NONE of those 30,000 plus gods has, or had, any more proof they were/are real than does any other god or gods. NONE of them has ANY REAL proof of actual existence at all. ALL ANY GOD has is the belief of those who believe in them and the ONLY place any God, or Gods exist are in the MINDS and in the MYTHS of those who believe in them. THEY DO NOT EXIST IN THE REAL WORLD AND YOU HAVE NO PROOF THEY DO. OVER TWO BILLION people believe in MANY gods. Would you like to prove they are wrong? OVER 2 Billion others (like you) believe in ONE god. And a OVER a Billion people (like me) do NOT believe in ANY god or gods! The odds are VERY HIGH the ONLY reason YOU do not believe in a different god than you do, OR even in MANY gods, is because those who raised did not. The SINGLE reason MOST people who believe in the religion they do, is because they were encultured, mind- conditioned, programmed, to do so by whomever raised them. As the Catholic Church says: "Give me a Child until the age of six and they are mine forever." (And the Christian Bible states some thing very similar.) Since MOST of the multi-millions of Americans who are now Atheists WERE Christians, (as I WAS) it is obvious this programming does not always hold. The journey from being a believer to being a non-believer ranges from not being very difficult at all, not having a big impact on ones life as far as losing your "friends" to being a very difficult one which does result in losing the connection to people who you mistakenly believed were friends. (That is what happened to Dan Barker, see below.) Still, MOST people who are raised in a religion are so programmed in it, they never even think of leaving it much less even start to de-program themselves. And MOST people who are programmed have NO CLUE they are. Nick, I will bet you do not admit you were and/or are programmed. And the odds are very high you believe in the same god and are a member of the same religion as were those who raised you. IF you have an OPEN mind, you should read of Dan Barker's journey from being a Christian Youth Leader, Christian song composer (with over 100 published songs on the market which he can not get back) & former Christian Minister who "saved" many people TO being an Atheist. It is called, "Losing Faith in Faith" & is available from http://www.ffrf.org As Dan's IQ score places him in the TOP .00098 percent of all the people in the world, I am quite sure you'll find his book both very interesting and very informative. And Dan's story is just one of the millions of such stories. (Stories of going from being a religious person to being an Atheist.) Here in the U.S., millions of more people go from being religious to being Atheists than go the other way. Sure, people can believe whatever they want, only most religious people did NOT choose to believe in a religion. They were programmed into it BEFORE they had the knowledge, the experience and the maturity to make a rational and informed choice. Like it or not, both current events and history prove that religions are, and have been, the single largest bar to progress which has ever existed Nick, you talk of respect. How can I respect belief system whose guide book (The Bible) tells them to KILL ME? To KILL ALL THOSE who do not believe as they do? (FYI, The Quran does NOT do that.) (And please do not to tell me it is not in the Bible. It is & as how anyone who can read with sufficient comprehension can see for themselves. Not only is the Old Testament part of the Bible, in the New Testament is says EVERY THING in the O.T. is true.) Here is ONE, of many, examples: In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! (In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.) The reason I say what I do about religions in general, and the Christian religion in particular, is because MOST American who are Atheists are so AFRAID of what our fellow Christian Americans will do to them if they say they are Atheists, they will not publicly state they are. And THAT, IS WRONG! (Atheists are one of the discriminated against groups in the United States.) So, when NO American Atheist is discriminated against and when they are no longer afraid of what Christians will do to them just for their being Atheists, I will stop bitching about religion, until then, I will not. Please, Take Care! Neil