Hi Heather, I do not disagree. However, the MLM industry helps breed this not prevent it. Many untruths or half truths are told for one reason or another. In TMII for example, one of my downline told his group he was making $6000 per month which was a lie. He made one check for $1,000 and rode it for all he could get out of it. He threathened me if I let the cat out of the bag. I have had too many experiences like this. I am not saying regular businesses are immune to this type of behavior. As Linda said. It is the people not the tools. I just feel MLMs breed the wrong things in many people. That does not mean that is what you are or what you will be. Many good people are in MLMs. You are one of them. MLMs are also adjusting at this time. Many MLMs fail every year. Many start. I am not currently promoting one, you are. What do you really think would be the stance if the roles were reversed? I have been a huge advocate of MLMs, now no longer. I used to carry with me Tim Sales DVD on Brilliant Compensation. It is a great presentation. He has some great materials, really good stuff. At one time I was at the presidents table of several MLMs. I have stood in front of audiences and preached the MLM gospel. I would rather promote a business where there is not so much partnership baggage.

---------------------------------------------- I would rather promote a business where there is not so much partnership baggage. ---------------------------------------------- That's an interesting comment David. Just what kind of business would you put in this category? To me, unless you are a single person and not in a relationship, there's "no" business that would fill this category as every business requires a commitment from both sides of a relationship regardless of what the business is. Without commitments of some kind from both parties in that relationship one person is being neglected. And we all know where that road leads. ------------------------------------------- Gary! Get out the flak jackets! :-) Start digging in! I see strongly opposing opinions developing on this one!

Hi Winston, The partnership I am talking about there is the assumptions of help that upline is supposed to give "downline" not the marriage partnership. MLMs have a community family type aura that brings that type of expectations which are rarely met. This leads to dissappointment, hate and anger as they house of cards come falling down. As I said, many people who join MLMs are ill suited to be business people. As Linda says, the successful ones move product. There is one thing people hate worse than being expected to be good business people when they are not, that is expected to be good sales people. Who here says they are a good salesperson? Who was born that way? No one. Sales is the highest paid occupation. It has the greatest highs and the greatest lows. It take someone who is persistent, tenacious like Linda. The security of a JOB does not require all that. That is easier. So many people I have spoken to said they could not be a salesperson. I had to convince them they did not have to or they would not join my MLM. That is true with TMII "if" you hang in there for the long term. No get rich quick here. However, if one needs to supplement their income now, guess what, they have to become a salesperson in some way. You have had to do it Winston with your website. In many ways selling with the written word is harder than selling in person. As far as marriages go and the stresses of MLMs I agree with Gary. It has hurt more than it has helped. He is not just expressing his opinion either. He has the research to back that up. I met some of those diamonds in Dexter Yager's organization. I snuck back in the back where they were hanging out. I saw how they would speak of God and country on stage then in the back smoke cigars and speak of how hard it was to motivate the masses. SendOutCards in not AmWay. It is a simple MLM which I happen to be a customer of. That is a sign of a good MLM, it can attract customers without them having to become distributors. Not evey MLM is the same. I am speaking of the spirit of the industry in general.

Good post, David... ======================================== SendOutCards in not AmWay. It is a simple MLM which I happen to be a customer of. That is a sign of a good MLM, it can attract customers without them having to become distributors. ======================================== In my humble opinion - that's what makes the difference. Can people just "buy" without joining. If yes, THAT, to me, is the mark of a quality MLM. Join if you want... or just buy the goods as a consumer if you'd rather. I don't have to "join" my grocery store to buy a head of Romaine, and I don't have to "join" my shoestore to buy new boots. Some of them even give me a customer loyalty card. So, when we've gone for Chinese Food "x" number of times, we get a free meal. Cool! But I still don't have to "join." If I must join to buy, it makes me wonder why. : ) Signed, The unintentional poet...lol

Hi Linda, They were good points. In MLM we wre taught to sponsor first and if we couldn't to turn the "negative non-believers" into customers. That expectation surely breeds too much pressure. Being able to purchase casually from wherever is preferable to making $X sales per month to each customer. Now... David: ============================ I have experienced what Gary says. My marriage was stressed from our AmWay experience. We went direct. We went no further. ============================ THANKYOU! David, you have had the courage to admit on this public forum the sort of pressure that is applied. I congratulate you for that. You experienced it first hand. I did too. Thank goodness neither of us succumbed to the hard-line mantras and dictums that are demanded by the demi-gods way up in the stratospheric uplines. I saw the "business," as it is known, drive wedges between marriages, friendships, relationshhips with children, you name it. The business was used as a reason to liberate families and yet all it did was drive them apart. I lost count of the times I was on the road presenting the business while my wife was home with the kids. I'd arrive home at 1.00am in the morning, sneak into the house so I didn't wake the family, slide into bed exhausted then get up at 6.00am to go to work and do it over and over again. Then, there was always a "family re-union" or some other special whizzbang event that demanded couples attend together. What do you do with the youngsters? Well, you ask grandparents to look after them but that wears a bit thin when you have an "open opportunity" meeting once a week, a "product night" once a month, "leadership" and "training" meetings every month, the BIG event at the end of the month and the SUPER-DUPER event every three months - all at massive financial and time costs. Very few others are prepared to admit marriage difficulties. Like I said I could point out a website that almost destroys the glitz and glamour one will read in Amway's grand showpiece of success - the "Profiles of Success" - a yearly book of people with glittering diamonds and faltering smiles. Gee, David, you've really wound me up. I have been waiting for this! OK Forumites - flack jackets on, dig in, kevlar helmets ON! There is one thing driving all this... Greed of the king-pins at the very top of the chain. I even heard "counselling" - ha! What a useless, over-rated term that is in MLM - better to call it hypnotizing. I recall an incident where one fellow who was on the "bones of his bum" was COUNSELLED to sell his much prized record collection so that he could be at the SUPER-DUPER function. He did. Did it change his life? Hmm. I'll let you guess. Counselling - LOTS of the so-called counselling was MARRIAGE counselling! By who? High pins. Why? To keep the money system pumping. What did some of these counsellors know about marriage? Half the time the advisors themselves were faking a happy marriage. Many of them are now divorced or separated or shacked up with cross-line partners. Behind the scenes they were just as miserable as those they were advising. It was a grim technique indeed. Words like: "Your wife/husband will love you when this business is providing for a new two storey mansion, a motor launch, a cabin in the woods, overseas holiday blah, blah, blah..." Build the dream. Keep at least one partner salivating even if the other one had turned "negative" against the business. The money HAD to keep getting pumped up the line! A favorite saying to keep people in the system... "we will walk the beaches of the world together..." Yeah sure. David. Thank you again. I know this has been a rant from me. I feel very strongly about it. Can anybody tell? My "grenade" on MLM marriages is offered in the spirit that it might help others recognize the early chinks and cracks if your chosen MLM starts getting the upline to use the marriage Ace on you should you appear to be losing interest or faltering in your love of the business. :-) Remember, I'm saying these things not out of bitterness but out of concern and care for people who are currently treading the MLM path. I don't want to steal anybody's dream (another line from "the business.") I just want you to be aware that you are up against master psychologists. Listen but temper the advice that you are getting with a realization that upline ALWAYS benefits. It is in their interest to get your volume moving and to get you showing the plan. It is a pure numbers game - yes, no, maybe. But it is YOUR interest that it does not adversely affect the way that you want to live your life. Incidentally, this next bit of "advice" will save you a LOT of time stuffing around with people when you show the plan or offer the products: Yes means maybe Maybe means no (politely) No definitely means NO Note: I think you guys are handling the way I am doing this so I'll keep with the battlefield theme until you get too annoyed or tired with it. It seems to be amusing some of you, at least. I've already alluded to it and David made a telling comment about it earlier... INBOUND! ========================== Grenade #4 - "Too many outright lies, half-truths and deliberately misleading statements are made by the big-pins on stage (and off)." ========================== Thanks for reading. Gary Simpson