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Luis Miguel Goitizolo

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Re: THE NORTHERN RENAISSANCE - HIERONYMUS BOSCH
6/19/2009 5:32:55 AM

Dear Myrna,

I am so glad you have liked this thread. And you are right, it's thanks to Kathleen that I brought this forum back. I will never get tired of thanking her for it. Moreover, it was her suggesting to feature Bosch which ultimately got me to. Were if not for her, I would very probably be still hesitating as to reopen the forum.

Thank you very much for your visit and post.

Best Wishes,

Luis Miguel Goitizolo


Hieronymus Bosch - Marriage Feast at Cana

"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

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Luis Miguel Goitizolo

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Re: THE NORTHERN RENAISSANCE - HIERONYMUS BOSCH
6/19/2009 6:21:05 AM

Dear Jill,

Sorry for the delay in replying. I was so glad that you showed up, especially considering how busy you usually are.

Knowing how you like mysteries, I thought about showing you some enlargements of a sector in the right panel of The Garden of Delights that might be of interest to you. They show something I noted several years ago in one of my books containing Bosch's larger format paintings. On second thought, however, I have decided to leave them for the last page of this thread so that suspense can mount a bit...

Here is another mystery though that you may be interested in.


Ascent of the Blessed, from the Paradise and Hell panels normally
attributed to Bosch (oil on panel, Palazzo Ducale, Venice)


This panel and its counterpart, Terrestrial Paradise, as well as the painted backs of both panels (very impressive too) are usually attributed to Bosch yet not without a good measure of controversy (see below). I believe they are his works, though they could have been painted by a disciple we know nothing of. What do you think? And, was Bosch such a visionary that he could be viewing in his mind the end times and not simply painting exemplary admonitions about Heaven and Hell? At any rate, it looks fairly modern. Again, What do you think?

Best Wishes,

Luis Miguel Goitizolo
____________
P.S. The painting is part of a polyptych of four panels entitled Visions of the Hereafter. The others are Terrestrial Paradise, Fall of the Damned and Hell
. Here is the poliptych.


Hieronymus Bosch -
Visions of the Hereafter
(oil on panel, date uncertain)

"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

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Luis Miguel Goitizolo

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Re: THE NORTHERN RENAISSANCE - HIERONYMUS BOSCH
6/19/2009 12:43:53 PM

Dear Ana Maria,

I so appreciate that you took the trouble to come and visit us, as I personally know how difficult it is when you have little time and must do many things. It was fortunate that you knew Bosch as
El Bosco and that I had written down this name as well, and to complete the trio of coincidences, that both the Romanian and Spanish languages belong to the same linguistic family.

But what I thank you the most for is the El Bosco video, as it has let me become familiar with a couple of Bosch
s paintings that I did not know or remember existed. I am including them below as a token of my recognition (you may click on each for the enlarged images).





The left painting is Christ Child with a Walking Frame (at the back of Bosch's Christ Carrying the Cross early master work).


The right painting is the reverse of his St John the Evangelist on Patmos.


Best Wishes,


Luis Miguel Goitizolo



"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

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Geketa Holman

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Re: THE NORTHERN RENAISSENCE - HIERONYMUS BOSCH
6/23/2009 8:33:26 AM
Hello Luis,

I apologize for being so late:( I rarely check my private mail here at Adland as it is generally filled with advertisements. Thank you kindly for your personal invitation.

I am not  familiar with Hieronymus so each of the paintings were new to me. I feel he was trying to convey  both the good and evil we all face as humans. He apparently was a very religious man that is easily understood through viewing his work. To me he also displayed both a reverence for his Creator along with a similarly great fear of the here after. His work is very intriguing and somehow almost disturbing. I honestly can't say he is one of my favorite artist but was a very special and talented one nonetheless.

You have done an outstanding job as always bringing  another great artist to our attention.

Thank you kindly and most of all thank you for your friendship.

Blessings

Geketa

Hear, O Israel the L-rd our G-d,the L-rd is one http://www.DHGBoutique.com
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Luis Miguel Goitizolo

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Re: THE NORTHERN RENAISSANCE - HIERONYMUS BOSCH
6/23/2009 10:48:10 AM

Dear Luka,

I am very sorry for the delay in my response to you. Actually, I wanted to meditate on the contents of your post, which I found particularly interesting, and indeed most challenging.

I will begin by saying that your point is perfectly clear, and most difficult to contend. And why should I contend it, if you are mostly correct in what you say? You have gone to the crux of a debate on religion and religiosity which, if taken to its bare essentials and ultimate consequences, would lead us nowhere, as has occurred throughout history.

Let me explain myself please. If I understand well, you are posing an eternal dilemma: Is religion good or bad for mankind? And your answer is: It is bad if it has to resort to a critic of man's evil ways and morality and not rather to his good acts and behavior. And you are perfectly right in that. But I would go a step ahead and ask: Has religion and religiosity been good or bad for mankind over history? And here the matter becomes perhaps more complicate, because if we are talking about the influence of religion, mostly Christianity, in the Western World, we must conclude that it has been both. It would take a whole volume to discuss in what regards it has been either, especially as to its ultimate consequences. Let me mention but one: In spite of the Church's immoral behavior in many things, which in fact had nothing to do with Jesus' teachings, it always acted as the main cohesive force in the development of Europe and played a crucial role in the survival of its culture after the downfall of the old civilizations. Even if this alone could also be contended for years on end, there at least you have a good point to consider.

But enough arguing here. I mean, I have lots of things to ponder and debate about which might be resorted to as valid points to make you reconsider your position. But to what end? I have already told you that I believe you are mostly right, even though I may think my own position is more close to the truth. And my own position is this: When a debate between two irreconciliable positions takes centuries without reaching a solution, one of two things: either the solution is midway bewteen the two of them, or the discussion itself is ill defined. In other words, maybe both parties are right... or wrong.

If we took the highest possible point of view to ponder things, maybe we would conclude that both ways - that of Jesus Christ and that of Saint John the Baptist - were correct. Maybe they complemented each other. One of them would be useful for a particular sort of men, the other one for another.

In the realm of metaphysics, both Good and Evil are necessary to make the world run; that is, with all its material imperfection.

I do believe Bosch had strange reasons to depict reality as he chose to, or maybe as he honestly perceived it. He perhaps had a propensity to see rather the evil than the good in all things, but he was sincere even in that. He showed the highest possible good in the placid and beautiful landscapes and in the characters shown on the left wings of his paintings, as if he wanted to attract all men back to a saintly way of life such as existed in a primeval age in Paradise. Opposite to it, he showed what he honestly viewed as men's dreadful destination if they failed to correct their perverted ways. In the midst of both, he depicted what those perverted ways were. Of course, all of this was shown in a highly symbolic way.

Whether or not he succeeded is just another story.

Best Wishes,

Luis Miguel Goitizolo

"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

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