Australia? Oh yea, the county were they took away the peoples guns so the citizens can not protect themselves and gun crimes pulus other crimes went up. I remember in WWII when the British citizens were begging Americans and Canadians to send them any guns we could so they could fight the Nazis when they invaded England. As anyone who is knowledgeable of WWII history knows, the only reason the Germans did not invade England was to Hitler's errors. And when the Chinese are invading Australia sometime in the next ten to twenty years, I will bet you will be wishing every one over 12 had a gun. Neil

Well Old Coot, 1. One thing I messed up in explanation of how I was not programmed to become an Atheist, was I left out the last 4 words from the following statement. "Compare the above to people who were raised to be religious and WHO ARE NOW ATHEISTS. ------------------------------- To paraphrase a quote from Emmet F. Fields. Atheism has one doctrine: To Question Atheism has one dogma: To Doubt An Atheist Bible would have only one word in it: "THINK" -------------------------------- 2. While your points about repetition are valid and necessary in programming, they do not really apply in this case a lot as they mostly pertain to developing an automatic PHYSICAL act while the other applies to non-automatic mental functions. One thing I've done a lot of is answering the telephone and I have done it over and over again for nearly all of my life. Still, I do NOT answer it using the SAME words every time. You may have seen a recent TV ad in which MANY different American's are answering their phone. And while all answers are in "english" none of them are the same one anyone else used. (And as you do not live in the US, you certainly may not have seen it.) If someone says to me "there is a god" I do not automatically say, "No, there is not." rather I would say something to the effect of: "I'm willing to examine your PROOF there is a god with two exceptions. One is your reciting some religious book as proof and your telling me to simply observe nature. Neither is any proof at all" Is that a "programmed" response? Maybe, only I would not consider it one as it would change depending on various factors. 3. You said: "I was an atheist for some years" A. I am sure you would capitalize the words Moslem, Jew, Hindu & Christian and yet I will bet you do NOT capitalize the words Agnostic, Humanist or Atheist. And this is just (to me) a typical putting down of those who do not believe in impossible things like gods. B. I get this "I was an Atheist for some years" bit quite a bit & as it never stands up under examination, I doubt it will for you either. C. I really, really doubt you were raised by Atheists or in an Atheist culture. Nope, I'll bet you were raised to believe in a god and it was most probably the Christian God. I'll also bet you did not even consider becoming an Atheist or even seriously think about if there was a god or not until you were well past the age of 10. Remember now, the Catholic Church says: "Give me a child until the age of six and they are mine FOREVER!" ------------------------------- "There is no absurdity so obvious it cannot be firmly planted in the human head if you only begin to impose it before the age of five, by constantly repeating it with an air of great solemnity." Arthur Schopenhauer --------------------------------- So YEA, you MAY have been (thought) you were an Atheist for a period of time ONLY unless you were DE-Programmed, you really NEVER were! 4. In your forum on religion, you said (I think) something about your having an experience which caused you to believe in a god. A. Well, nearly everyone has experiences they really believe (or believed) are true which NEVER actually happened! One of those I had was are so real to me I would have BET MY LIFE they actually occurred lasted for over 20 years before I was able to prove to myself it NEVER happened. (Another only lasted for a week before I was fortunate enough to discover it never really happened either.) Now, how many other things in my life do I fully believe actually happened which were really ONLY DREAMS? I have NO idea. It could be from a few, to many, and there is just no way for me to know. And there is no way for me OR for YOU or for ANYONE to know if EVERY THING which they believed happened to them REALLY happened. While the dream I had was beyond logical belief and supportive evidence, I believed it was true. And it lasted UNTIL I asked one of those whom I fully believed was there with me. As I was still drinking (alcohol) at the time, he looked at me like I was drunk. He asked if I was nuts and said no such thing ever happened. This caused me to start questioning it and to look into it. So UNLESS you have witnesses you can ask (and you HAVE asked them) who will verify your "experience" which was so real it caused you to believe it really actually happened, the odds are very high, it was JUST a Dream like mine was! 5. Arthur, there is something which nearly all of those who were REALLY far into their religion, people who had dedicated their lives to religion, like Priests, Rabis, Ministers, Nuns, Deacons, Preachers etc. all once they have DE-programmed them- selves SAY. And that is something to the effect of: "Now, for the first time in my life, I finally really know what real Truth is and what true Freedom is all about!" You see, Arthur, Atheism FREES you of the illogical and anti-freedom constraints which religious belief subjugates you with. -------------------------------- "Through the Atheistic perspective we are able to see the true divisive and vindictive nature of Christianity. The Atheist sees the Christian as equal in the end. Both going to the same place upon death, nowhere. Where as the Christian sees themselves as deserving favors and gifts, while the Atheist deserves punishment. We can see here the true benevolent nature of Atheism and why it is clearly the better world view to maintain." Mike T. Suetkamp --------------------------------- Atheists MUST BE psychologically stronger than religious people as we do NOT need any god to resist evil or to succeed, to be brave, courageous, to fight off diseases and death. We do it all the time and have been doing it since long before the Christian religion was founded. The facts are, Atheists ARE the leaders, or among the leaders in nearly every single field of human endeavor other than religion. (And maybe "Rap music". :-) )

Arthur, -------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- In reference to your heart attack & stroke. -------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- You should know by now my be being honest and truthful is much more important to me than selling ANY thing. (And, I do not care if you get from me or others.) The facts are, YOU SHOULD BE DRINKING NONI JUICE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ This explains EXACTLY what Noni Juice is. I've drinking/learning about it for nearly TEN years. Noni IS a TRUE NATURAL HEALING MIRACLE. And has been every effectively used for over 5,000 years! ----------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/thread/649001.aspx ----------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- In it is a website where you can Read and/or Listen to the various testimonies. In the written ones, under "other" is one about Strokes and Alzheimer's. Do yourself a favor and read it. -------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------- http://www.noni-is-good-for-you.com/ ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- Neil

Hi, Neil,

There is so much to think about here, thank you.

Not capitalising atheist or atheism, by the way, is not a personal expression of the validity of otherwise of the belief or lack of belief - it is simply common practice.

Christianity, Muslimism and Buddhism, for example, are 'proper names' and, so, capitalised - atheism is simply a noun and not capitalised. Maybe it should be?

The Old Coot

Hi Old Coot, YES, the NON - capitalization of Atheist is simply common practice. So was making sure women could only be housewives and gays could be harrassed, beaten and killed. And of course, Slavery was (and is) a "common practice". Only something being a "common pradtice" does not make it right at all. Or is it acceptable to me. Neil P.S. The former head of Exxon Oil in Australia & who did not believe in Global Warming, does now! Why? For the same reasons I changed my mind with the main one being the ice cores going back more than 650 thousand years which prove the highest levels of CO2 in our air is NOW!!! Over all of that time, they never exceeded 300 parts per million. They are now around 380 parts per million and are going up.