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Peter Fogel

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
5/16/2012 12:46:02 PM
Hi Jim,

I'm sorry to say that your latest reply is ridiculous bordering on pathetic. Is that all you have to say? You and your fellow ronbots are screaming it's either our kook or we're outta here. This isn't new but now that your guy bowed out of the race you've got your hackles up and are trying to justify not supporting the GOP candidate.

Personally I believe that with or without you and the most rabid of the ronbots Romney has a very good chance of winning. I also believe that many Paul supporters will do what's right and support Romney.

We all decide what's right for us for with what we consider rational reasons. If you think not supporting Romney is rational with the possibility it might cause a B Husein win then in a way I pity you and can only say let your conscience be your guide. I know many on the left will thank you profusely.

Shalom,

Peter

Quote:
Good Day,
So you are already looking for scapegoats to blame for your guys loss. That's rich.

Later,
Jim
Peter Fogel
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Jim
Jim Allen

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
5/16/2012 1:42:15 PM
My Last Reply on this topic Peter. It was the "mittens" crowd that first stated if your not with us you're again is, You know the the Bushism adage, don't you? You mistake Libertarian views with Liberal views.

My conscience is clear. I will not support someone that supports almost all the same policies as the current resident of the White House. Just cannot and will not do it.

Peace,
Jim





Quote:
Hi Jim,

I'm sorry to say that your latest reply is ridiculous bordering on pathetic. Is that all you have to say? You and your fellow ronbots are screaming it's either our kook or we're outta here. This isn't new but now that your guy bowed out of the race you've got your hackles up and are trying to justify not supporting the GOP candidate.

Personally I believe that with or without you and the most rabid of the ronbots Romney has a very good chance of winning. I also believe that many Paul supporters will do what's right and support Romney.

We all decide what's right for us for with what we consider rational reasons. If you think not supporting Romney is rational with the possibility it might cause a B Husein win then in a way I pity you and can only say let your conscience be your guide. I know many on the left will thank you profusely.

Shalom,

Peter

Quote:
Good Day,
So you are already looking for scapegoats to blame for your guys loss. That's rich.

Later,
Jim

May Wisdom and the knowledge you gained go with you,



Jim Allen III
Skype: JAllen3D
Everything You Need For Online Success


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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
5/16/2012 3:42:30 PM
I've been following the posts here the last couple of days and I would like to add a few things. Remember how a lot of us tried to get people to take a look at Obama's background and the type people he associated with? Remember how all that was discounted or ignored for the most part and people still voted for him and look at what a huge mistake that turned out to be!!!
We have to take a look at someone's past actions in order to make an informed decision and when you take a look back at Ron Paul, the biggest things that stand out in my mind is the racist newsletter he published for several years and the support of the group Stormfront. In my opinion we can not afford to discount or ignore these things.
[quote[ Published as far back as the late 1970s, under various mastheads bearing Paul's name (Ron Paul Political Report, Ron Paul’s Freedom Report, the Ron Paul Survival Report), the newsletters are, at times, virulently racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and conspiratorial. [/quote[
We now have a sitting president who has contributed immensely to class warfare among Americans with his "sharing the wealth" plan. It has caused multitudes of people to envy and covet what someone else, who is better off then they are, part of what they have. It doesn't seem to matter to them, that for the most part, we have all arrived at whatever point we may be at by our own actions and inactions, by the good or bad decisions we've made. Maybe some of you think it's alright to support someone who would inject even more hatred into our lives but I certainly don't.
By supporting someone with these ideals doesn't say a lot about one's own character does it? Ron Paul is a pied piper, just like Obama, or his followers would at least take a look at the things that color this weasel's background, that shows us his true character, and if you can still support him, then I don't know what else to say. To me these things far outweigh any good ideas he might have.
Quote:

In the wake of the controversy over the newsletters, he’s increasingly faced questions about his white supremacist supporters, but he has declined to disavow their backing.

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
5/17/2012 3:09:03 AM

Hi Geketa, I thought it imperative to find this post you made back on April 10 because of all the pertinent information about Ron Paul. The links to your blog are very informative, especially your personal experiences with some of his supporters. Geketa, I've known you now for about 6 years and one thing I learned early on was to trust what you say as the truth. To me hearing something straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, is much more credible in my opinion and it only goes to reinforce things I've heard and read about Ron Paul. As you probably know, I've never trusted the man from the very beginning and the more I learn the more I feel justified in my opinion of the little weasel. I know that now he tries to deny ever having anything to do with this long running newsletter but I was able to find information suggesting otherwise although the author had to do some digging to find older copies.

Quote:
Angry White Man
The bigoted past of Ron Paul.

Most voters had never heard of Paul before he launched his quixotic bid for the Republican nomination. But the Texan has been active in politics for decades. And, long before he was the darling of antiwar activists on the left and right, Paul was in the newsletter business. In the age before blogs, newsletters occupied a prominent place in right-wing political discourse. With the pages of mainstream political magazines typically off-limits to their views (National Review editor William F. Buckley having famously denounced the John Birch Society), hardline conservatives resorted to putting out their own, less glossy publications. These were often paranoid and rambling--dominated by talk of international banking conspiracies, the Trilateral Commission’s plans for world government, and warnings about coming Armageddon--but some of them had wide and devoted audiences. And a few of the most prominent bore the name of Ron Paul.

Paul’s newsletters have carried different titles over the years--Ron Paul’s Freedom Report, Ron Paul Political Report, The Ron Paul Survival Report--but they generally seem to have been published on a monthly basis since at least 1978. (Paul, an OB-GYN and former U.S. Air Force surgeon, was first elected to Congress in 1976.) During some periods, the newsletters were published by the Foundation for Rational Economics and Education, a nonprofit Paul founded in 1976; at other times, they were published by Ron Paul & Associates, a now-defunct entity in which Paul owned a minority stake, according to his campaign spokesman. The Freedom Report claimed to have over 100,000 readers in 1984. At one point, Ron Paul & Associates also put out a monthly publication called The Ron Paul Investment Letter.
The Freedom Report’s online archives only go back to 1999, but I was curious to see older editions of Paul’s newsletters, in part because of a controversy dating to 1996, when Charles “Lefty” Morris, a Democrat running against Paul for a House seat, released excerpts stating that “opinion polls consistently show only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions,” that “if you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be,” and that black representative Barbara Jordan is “the archetypical half-educated victimologist” whose “race and sex protect her from criticism.” At the time, Paul’s campaign said that Morris had quoted the newsletter out of context. Later, in 2001, Paul would claim that someone else had written the controversial passages. (Few of the newsletters contain actual bylines.) Caldwell, writing in the Times Magazine last year, said he found Paul’s explanation believable, “since the style diverges widely from his own.”
Finding the pre-1999 newsletters was no easy task, but I was able to track many of them down at the libraries of the University of Kansas and the Wisconsin Historical Society. Of course, with few bylines, it is difficult to know whether any particular article was written by Paul himself. Some of the earlier newsletters are signed by him, though the vast majority of the editions I saw contain no bylines at all. Complicating matters, many of the unbylined newsletters were written in the first person, implying that Paul was the author.
But, whoever actually wrote them, the newsletters I saw all had one thing in common: They were published under a banner containing Paul’s name, and the articles (except for one special edition of a newsletter that contained the byline of another writer) seem designed to create the impression that they were written by him--and reflected his views. What they reveal are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews, and gays. In short, they suggest that Ron Paul is not the plain-speaking antiwar activist his supporters believe they are backing--but rather a member in good standing of some of the oldest and ugliest traditions in American politics."

Quote:
Hi Peter and all here is something I wrote for you all to think about !

My case against Ron Paul , Rand Paul and their supporters

I have been a Republican since before I was old enough to vote. As a child I loved talking about government and spent hours reading about the history of the United States. I studied the Constitution trying very hard to understand every word of it. I knew within those old documents lay my freedom, and my rights as a citizen of the United States. I learned to read at age four and read fluently by age six.

During my college years I was actively involved with the young Republicans. That was in the early seventies. Being involved in politics for me was being a good citizen. I volunteered making phone calls , stuffing envelopes , putting out yard signs , canvassing for local , state and national candidates in what ever community I lived in at the time.

In 2008 I found myself unable to support John McCain as the Republican nominee. I felt he leaned too far to the left on several issues . Abortion was my biggest problem. So, I campaigned for the first time for an outsider during the primary. I did not give up my registration as a Republican, I simply helped get Dr. Alan Keyes on the ballot in Kentucky as a write in candidate. I found eight delegates and filed all the paper work so others could have a choice of a social / fiscal conservative . It was my way of protesting. Dr. Keyes got over two thousand votes in Kentucky as a write in so, I proved I was not the only one that was not thrilled with the GOP choice.

That was my first encounter what Ron Paul Supporters. Until then I simply thought of him as nothing but a libertarian Republican with some strange ideas. A harmless kook. Let's remember Paul resigned from the Republican Party in 1987 and launched a bid for the presidency running on the Libertarian Party ticket. He rejoined the Republican party when he finally figured out he could not win anything on a Libertarian ticket. Republican Americans were not buying it .

Although Paul says he is pro life in the real world he is not because he believes in states rights there fore it would be just a matter of crossing a few state lines to get an abortion if your state decided to ban abortion. That my friends is not Pro-life it is Pro-choice. When anyone points out that Ron is not pro-life you get bashed . Anything said about the messiah Ron Paul sends a stream of vile bashing toward you with a horde of comments . The bashing from those people would have made a lesser person give up. I was called names , ridiculed and threatened daily. I got hate mail and even a couple of times phone calls. Finally , he lost and the bashing stopped. I will point out here some of the things you have to take into consideration as to why Ron Paul is a danger to America and his supporters are terrorist a little later on.

Rand Paul is one of our senators from Kentucky. During his campaigned in 2010. I got another taste of the Ron Paul supporters. This time I was somewhat more prepared. The T.E.A. Party was blooming all across America and yes even here in Kentucky. People were angry ! Bailouts , jobs lost , mortgage crisis. This posed an open door for Ron to send Rand out to take a state position as Senator. Rand had worked with his dad on his campaigns since he was fourteen years old. The T.E.A. Party people were organizing here and Ron Paul sent in his people by the hundreds to brain wash the ignorant. Glen Beck was also rallying the troupes with his crazy grandstanding on the radio, thousands of people started watching him on fox news. We have had a Libertarian party here for some years, not very active but still a small voice. For our senate race we had three candidates. Rand Paul , Trey Grayson and Bill Johnson.

I supported Johnson. I was the activity director and assistant to the campaign manager. Grayson was painted by the Paul people as the establishment and Johnson was completely ignored by the press and painted as a nobody by the Paul's people. Johnson had everything a Republican could want in a candidate he was an ex Military Iraqi vet, social and fiscal conservative, Pro-life with no exceptions, marriage was between one man and one woman, smaller government , balance the budget, flat tax, cut spending, his foreign policy was much like Ronald Reagan , Supported biblical borders for Israel. He also wanted to protect social security while phasing it out to allow individuals to invest for their own retirement. He believes in personal responsibility. He also wanted an Audit of the Federal Reserve, believes education would work a lot better on a community level and wanted to rein in the EPA .

As people organized their T.E.A. Party rallies across the state Rand would make sure he was there as a speaker. He and his people co opted every rally .His speeches railed against the establishment much like the protesters of the 1960's.

Here are a few of his statements he made while campaigning for the US Senate seat .

Gitmo quotes :

Rand Paul “couldn’t agree more” with those who believe Guantanamo has “significantly damaged the reputation of the United States” and who want to “see it shut down.” – (Rand Paul official campaign web site post, posted by the site Administrator, 5/25/09)

"It's unclear whether these people are guilty or not guilty... So I really think deportation or sending them back to their country of origin might be the best way to go. And none of it’s fair, because some of them have been held years and years without trial... and you deport them to the countries where they were captured..."

Rand Paul on Gitmo prisoners on Alex Jones, 5/21/09

“I think they should mostly be sent back to their country of origin or to tell you the truth I’d drop them back off into battle … you’re unclear, drop ‘em off back into Afghanistan. It’d take them a while to get back over here.”

Rand Paul speaking in Paducah, KY, 5/8/09

The economic woes of America are cause by our war on Terror quote!

“Traditional conservatives who want the same sort of aggressive foreign policy probably cannot balance the budget… Unless you cut some of what we’re doing militarily, you cannot balance the budget - Rand Paul

"Part of the reason we've bankrupted the country is fighting so many foreign wars and having so many military bases around the world."
AntiWar Radio interview may 17, 2009

We really should roll back America’s Empire and by all means get rid of the Patriot Act
"Is rolling back the empire not the first order of business for shoring up the economy?"

"Yes I think they're interrelated, and they've become the political coalition you need to win a race basically. Because here are people on the left who acknowledge the vast expenditures of the military industrial complex, and there are people on the right who are beginning to understand that. There's a sort of left-right paradigm that you bring these groups together in order to try to win an election. I think it's coming."
AntiWar Radio interview may 17, 2009

At a T.E.A. Party meeting Rand said this :

"I know that third party candidates can’t win in KY. Although I’m a Libertarian at heart, I’ve decided to run as a Republican. Once I win I’ll be able to promote my father’s principles and work towards reforming the Republican party."

He said the same kinds of things at every T.E.A. Party gathering in Kentucky. I personally heard them because I was there with the Johnson Campaign. At many of the rallies I attended there were people from Storm Front a white supremacist group , recruiting for their cause wearing Rand Paul t shirts and stickers on their clothes. When they were asked why they supported the Paul’s they said .. “he is one of us”.

Once, I was spit on because the guy handing out the literature saw my ,"Star of David pendent hanging around my neck. I was also told if I did not shut up (because I was very vocal about Rand and Ron Paul’s libertarian politics). I would be gutted like a fish this was at a Lincoln day dinner in Boone county.

Here is a letter I received after asking to be removed from the Rand Paul mailing list its filled with Ron Paul buzz words and obvious brainwashing.

"You will be summarily removed. I sincerely hope that you realize that you are playing right into what the establishment wants you to do. They offer you up a neo-con-lite because they know you will not vote for the establishment candidate and they only wish to pull enough votes away from their true opposition (who is leading in the polls) to allow their anointed candidate (who is second in
the polls) to win, and you are helping them do just that. It is a classic political game. Your candidate will not win. He has no chance. I know how that feels because we've been there before when the average masses were still asleep, but it wasn't because of lack of widespread support (which is the problem with your candidate - he has to lend his own campaign $250,000 because he does not have a mandate from the people even though he's been at campaigning for as long as the rest of 'em).

The problem is that your candidate does not understand, nor desire to obey, the US Constitution. I have talked to him numerous times and even been in a GOOOH focus group with him. He doesn't understand the separation between State and Federal authority. He doesn't even allow questions at his events to any real degree. I have heard him speak many times. ( I am the campaign activity director) He is a very nice* person, I do not doubt that. He appears to be a "regular" guy and a moral guy. I'll give him that. All those things really don't matter if he doesn't respect the rule of law (the US Constitution) in ALL situations nor the separation of Federal and State authority that the States are accorded. (See the 9th and 10th amendments to the US Constitution.) In other words, even with all his good qualities, he lacks what we really need in these terrible times....that is a thorough knowledge of the US Constitution and the guiding principles of true American liberty, which are the only way to restore our original peace and prosperity. We need a real statesman who knows the lessons of history.
I pray that you will consider you_r support and put it towards something besides a shell of true liberty.

Blessings to you, " End of letter!

The person who wrote me this letter was about 20 years old. I was 55 and had been involved in both politics and studying the Constitution most of my life.

Tactics of the Paul crowd:

The tactics they use are much like covert operations of the left for instance. During the Rand Paul's campaign a call was sent out to bring in the troupes form out-of-state, first they pick an area to target Kentucky was the target during 08 and they move in register to vote and stay in houses and apartments during the campaigns. They hit the colleges where there are already professors teaching a lot of subversion in the class room so the students are ripe for receiving their message.

Here is an entry I did on my blog messenger of the truth about these tactics and special boot camps for the Paul supporters too much to cover here ..

http://messengerofthetruth.blogspot.com/2010/01/rand-paul-adopts-acorn-training-tactics.html

Here is another entry from my blog about the out-of-state people .. Note it says few months.

http://messengerofthetruth.blogspot.com/2010/01/rand-paul-must-have-helped-get-obama.html

Note here : To date we have another Ron Paul supporter running for Congress here in Kentucky , Thomas Massie, one of ours is retiring and he is using the same tactics in his campaign. Recently he ran an ad during the UK verses UOL basketball game , big rivals and Kentuckians are HUGH college basketball fans, in this ad it looks as if the seated congressman endorsed him. I talked to the congressman and he said ,he did not endorse Massie nor anyone else and requested the ad be removed, it was not and as far as I know as of this writing the ad is still running . He has no respect for a seated congressman in my opinion. You can view the ad here if you like : http://mycn2.com/politics/massie-s-first-ad-aired-during-uk-uofl-game-uses-geoff-davis-floor-speech-as-narration

A few other tasty things they like to do is scrub their web sites when they get called on a issue . They also have a lot of very savvy computer people who like to send out viruses to supporters of their opposition.

Then of course there is the newsletter Ron Paul wrote for ten years and he denies knowing what was in it. He got the money,he should accept responsibility. He also received money from Storm Front the militant white supremacist group and still has not given it back or denounced them in anyway. On the storm front web site there is a link to RON Pauls web site .. an of course they endorsed him for president as well here is the link ..

Storm front found said Ron Pauls veiws coincide with ours. This comes directly from his newsletters and open hatred for Israel . http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/28/stormfront-founder-ron-pauls-views-coincide-with-ours-on-most-issues/

What should be the most worrisome about this endorsement is the fact Ron Paul never disavowed this before or now. Mr. Paul said in an interview when asked about getting help from volunteers with anti-Jewish or anti-black views.

“If they want to endorse me, they’re endorsing what I do or say — it has nothing to do with endorsing what they say,” Seriously , if he were not in agreement he would be screaming at the to of his lungs .. no, no, no .. go away , I do not accept your endorsement and run them out of his campaign. Of course a true Ron Paul supporter would say differently. Probably something like, he can't help who supports him or you are a neo-con, a warmonger, blah blah blah and my favor is this : "The idea that Ron Paul is liable for the thoughts of people who support him is absurd". No, he can't be held liable for anyone's thoughts, but you're known by the company you keep so, if he don't agree with them why would he not distance himself.

Ron Paul is very much an anti-Semite for instance : He thinks Iran should be allowed nuclear capabilities: Knowing full well they plan on exterminating Israel. He wants to pull foreign aid and every time he mentions that he makes sure he mentions Israel first . He has said time and again they can take care of themselves. He has no love for Israel or the Jews.

Rand has the same kind of attitude towards Israel. Or why would he speak on the Senate floor to oppose unanimous consent of a new set of sanctions on Iran and introduced an amendment that would ensure that nothing in the act be construed as a declaration of war or an authorization of the use of force against Iran or Syria, and that any such use of force must be authorized by Congress. Neither him nor his father may come right out and say they oppose Israel but through their actions they show no love for her either. They tend to lean towards the Muslims and think we should allow them to do as they please no matter what the case may be, like saying time an again 9/11 was our fault . These two are so anti war I wonder if either Israel or America were to be attacked would they vote against a just war ? I think waiting until you see the whites of their eyes is a bad idea , given the range of missiles these days.

Ron and Rand Paul are dangerous and so are their terrorist supporters .They prey on the ignorant and the ill informed !



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Peter Fogel

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RE: The President That Hates His Country By Joan Swirsky
5/17/2012 6:51:00 AM
Hi Evelyn,

Thanks for sharing your opinions and beliefs with us. Paul's racist past is a part of his history that can't be denied even though they are denying it. His news letters are archived and there for all to see.

One thing they claim is true. You can't control who supports you but you can repudiate their views and return any campaign donations received from these sources. He's done neither of the two.

Storm Front not only supports Paul they were closely involved with him historically and were part of the news letter that bears his name. For Paul to claim he wasn't involved with the news letter is ludicrous and most logical people see how ridiculous a claim that is. Especially since he benefited both politically and from the profits of these news letters.

The worst part is that Storm Front isn't the only racist group supporting Paul and again the question I raised many times in the past is why he attracts all these groups and crazies?

When we were showing all of B Hussein's past associations in 2008 it was relevant and viable to all logical people but now when the same ronbots who agreed then in regard to B Hussein all of a sudden claim that you can't blame Paul for those supporting him. It's like saying you can't blame B Hussein for Wright's racism and anti Americanism even though he spent 20 years in his church and sat through all his hate filled rhetoric. Now all of a sudden they claim you can't blame Paul and that by doing so it's using guilt by association. Is this hypocrisy or simply the inability to see things straight in regard to the kook in chief?

Ron Paul used and conned his supporters for his own purposes and now they still carry the torch and even deny he pulled out of the primary race. He brainwashed them well and deserves "credit" for that.

Shalom,

Peter

Quote:
I've been following the posts here the last couple of days and I would like to add a few things. Remember how a lot of us tried to get people to take a look at Obama's background and the type people he associated with? Remember how all that was discounted or ignored for the most part and people still voted for him and look at what a huge mistake that turned out to be!!!
We have to take a look at someone's past actions in order to make an informed decision and when you take a look back at Ron Paul, the biggest things that stand out in my mind is the racist newsletter he published for several years and the support of the group Stormfront. In my opinion we can not afford to discount or ignore these things.
[quote[ Published as far back as the late 1970s, under various mastheads bearing Paul's name (Ron Paul Political Report, Ron Paul’s Freedom Report, the Ron Paul Survival Report), the newsletters are, at times, virulently racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and conspiratorial. [/quote[
We now have a sitting president who has contributed immensely to class warfare among Americans with his "sharing the wealth" plan. It has caused multitudes of people to envy and covet what someone else, who is better off then they are, part of what they have. It doesn't seem to matter to them, that for the most part, we have all arrived at whatever point we may be at by our own actions and inactions, by the good or bad decisions we've made. Maybe some of you think it's alright to support someone who would inject even more hatred into our lives but I certainly don't.
By supporting someone with these ideals doesn't say a lot about one's own character does it? Ron Paul is a pied piper, just like Obama, or his followers would at least take a look at the things that color this weasel's background, that shows us his true character, and if you can still support him, then I don't know what else to say. To me these things far outweigh any good ideas he might have.
Quote:

In the wake of the controversy over the newsletters, he’s increasingly faced questions about his white supremacist supporters, but he has declined to disavow their backing.

Peter Fogel
Babylon 7
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