Menu



error This forum is not active, and new posts may not be made in it.
PromoteFacebookTwitter!
Luis Miguel Goitizolo

1162
61587 Posts
61587
Invite Me as a Friend
Top 25 Poster
Person Of The Week
RE: ARE WE NOW IN THE END TIMES?
7/19/2014 10:36:14 AM

U.S. steps up deportation of Central American child migrants

Reuters

Immigrants who have been caught crossing the border illegally are housed inside the McAllen Border Patrol Station in McAllen, Texas where they are processed on Tuesday, July 15, 2014. More than 57,000 unaccompanied children have been apprehended at the southwestern border since October, more than twice the total this time last year, many through the Rio Grande Valley. (AP Photo/Los Angeles Times, Rick Loomis, Pool)

View Gallery

By Gabriel Stargardter

SAN PEDRO SULA Honduras (Reuters) - More than 40 Central American children were expelled from the United States on flights to Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador on Friday, as the U.S. government stepped up its deportation of illegal child migrants.

Tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors from the three violence-torn countries have been caught crossing the border this year, stretching U.S. border facilities and sparking fierce political debate about how to address the problem.

Thirty-three minors aged 6 months to 15 years along with 26 mothers landed on a U.S. flight to San Pedro Sula, Honduras, the city with the world's highest murder rate.

There, the first lady of the country, Ana Garcia de Hernandez, met them and immediately expressed concern.

"Many of these (mothers) took out big loans, so how are they going to pay them now?" Garcia said.

Friday's flights were the second lot after an initial group of deported children and women arrived in Honduras on Monday.

One of the women on the Honduran flight, 26-year-old Keli Orellana, said she was exhausted after spending eight days in a U.S. detention center with her 6-month-old baby son Iker Perez.

Returning to Honduras nearly $5,000 in debt to the guide or "coyote" who smuggled her to the border, Orellana urged U.S. President Barack Obama to give the migrants a chance. "He should let us stay because we're only going to work," she said.

But the U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement said in a statement it expected more adults with children to be returned to Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador soon, "based on the results of removal proceedings or expedited removal."

Migrants from Central America have fled rampant crime and brutal gangs in growing numbers since last October. Many have to pay smugglers with borrowed money in their bid to sneak illegally across the U.S. border with Mexico.

Five girls aged 7 to 16, two boys of 2 and 14 and five mothers were returned from New Mexico to Guatemala City along with other adults, the U.S. embassy in Guatemala said.

Afterward, the flight took three boys aged 4 to 14, a girl of 9 and four mothers to San Salvador along with 22 other women, according to U.S. officials in Guatemala and El Salvador.

This week's deportations come after U.S. President Barack Obama pledged to speed up the process of sending back illegal immigrants from Central America.

Obama will meet with the leaders of Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador at the White House next week to discuss cooperation on the influx of child migrants, administration officials in Washington said on Friday.

During the nine months ending June 30, more than 57,000 children were detained at the U.S.-Mexico border, most of them from Central America, and double last year's count.

Honduras has the highest murder rate in the world, and the government has urged the United States to help the country.

Hector Espinal, a UNICEF spokesman in Honduras, was doubtful that families would be deterred by the deportations because violence and poverty remain deeply rooted in the country.

"The most likely situation is that these families will try to cross to the United States again," he said.

(Additional reporting by Mike McDonald in Guatemala City, Nelson Renteria in San Salvador and Julia Edwards in Washington; Writing by Joanna Zuckerman Bernstein; Editing by Dave Graham, Tom Brown and Ken Wills)


U.S. increases deportation of migrant children


Obama has pledged to speed up the process of sending illegal child migrants back to Central American nations.
Meeting scheduled

"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

+1
Luis Miguel Goitizolo

1162
61587 Posts
61587
Invite Me as a Friend
Top 25 Poster
Person Of The Week
RE: ARE WE NOW IN THE END TIMES?
7/19/2014 10:55:06 AM

US: Can't rule out Russian role in plane downing

Associated Press


Reuters Videos

US to UN: Cannot rule out Russian help in Ukraine missile firing


UNITED NATIONS (AP) — U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Friday that the United States cannot rule out that Russia helped in the launch of the surface-to-air missile that shot down a Malaysia Airlines jet over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.

Power said the U.S. believes the plane was likely downed by an SA-11 missile fired from an area in eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists. She said Russia has provided SA-11s and other heavy weapons to the separatists.

Britain's U.N. Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant, who called the emergency meeting, was more emphatic on assessing blame for the crash.

"It is clear where responsibility lies: with the senseless violence of armed separatists and with those who have supported, equipped and advised them," he said. "The council must be united in condemning these actions, and in demanding that these groups disarm, desist from violence and intimidation and engage in dialogue through the democratic mechanisms that are available to them."

The Malaysian jet was flying at a cruising altitude of 33,000 feet (10,000 meters) from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on an established flight corridor when it was shot down Thursday, Power said.

Power said that early Thursday a Western reporter reported an SA-11 system in separatist-controlled territory near Snizhne, "and separatists were spotted hours before the incident with an SA-11 SAM system close to the site where the plane came down." Power didn't identify the reporter. But on Thursday, AP journalists saw a rocket launcher near Snizhne.

"Separatists initially claimed responsibility for shooting down a military transport plane, and claimed responsibility and posted videos that are now being connected to the Malaysian Airlines crash," Power said. "Separatist leaders also boasted on social media about shooting down a plane, but later deleted these messages."

"Because of the technical complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel. Thus, we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems," she said.

Power said Ukraine also has SA-11 missiles but the United States is not aware of any in the area where the plane was shot down.

She said the downing of the Malaysian airlines jet also follows a pattern of attacks on aircraft by the separatists in June and very recently on Monday and Wednesday.

View photo

.
Members of the U.N. Security Council stand for a moment of silence for the lives lost on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 on Thursday during a meeting at United Nations headquarters, Friday, July 18, 2014. Britain's U.N. Mission says it requested an emergency meeting after Thursday's downing of a Malaysia Airlines plane carrying 298 people over eastern Ukraine. (AP Photo/John Minchillo)

Members of the U.N. Security Council stand for a moment of silence for the lives lost on Malaysia Airlines Flight …

"If indeed Russian-backed separatists were behind this attack on a civilian airliner, they and their backers would have good reason to cover up evidence of their crime," Power told the council. "Thus it is extremely important than an investigation be commenced immediately."

Power called for a cease-fire by Russia, pro-Russian separatists and Ukraine so investigators can immediately get to the site.

Russia's U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin did not respond to the U.S. allegations but called for an international commission to investigate the crash.

He asked why Ukraine allowed civilian aircraft to fly over an area where military clashes and airstrikes were taking place, and where anti-aircraft systems were operating, and called on investigators to also determine whether Ukraine met its international obligation to ensure the safety of the flying public and "prevent disasters from occurring."

"Today, Kiev declared a full closure of the airspace in the conducting of the so-called anti-terrorist operation," Churkin said. "Why couldn't this have been done earlier, not later when (there were) hundreds of victims?"

Ukraine's U.N. Ambassador Yuriy Sergeyev reiterated that the downing of the Malaysian airliner would not have happened if Russia did not provide sophisticated anti-aircraft systems to the rebels.

He said that intercepted telephone conversations between rebel leaders and a Russian military intelligence colonel "confirms the terrorists are standing behind this crime," stressing that immediately after the crash, a rebel military leader boasted in social media of shooting down what he thought was a Ukrainian jet.

Sergeyev said communications and intercepts, photos and videos indicate that the rebels have at least two SA-11 missile systems, also known as Buk. He added that detained "terrorists," including two Russian citizens who were going to join the rebels, confessed that the Buk system arrived from Russia.

The entire Security Council called for "a full, thorough and independent international investigation, in accordance with international civil aviation guidelines, and for appropriate accountability." It stressed the need for "immediate access by investigators to the crash site to determine the cause of the incident."

At the start of Friday's emergency meeting, all diplomats in the crowded council chamber rose to their feet and bowed their heads in silent tribute to those who died.

Ambassadors from all countries with passengers on the flight — Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia, Indonesia, United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium, Philippines, Vietnam, Canada, New Zealand and the United States — all spoke, demanding an independent investigation and calling for the perpetrators to be brought to justice.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon offered the "full cooperation" of the U.N. in an international investigation, saying it must be "full and transparent" and anyone responsible must be brought to justice, U.N. deputy spokesman Farhan Haq said. Ban said the International Civil Aviation Organization has offered to put together an international team.

Late on Friday night, the ICAO announced in a news release that it would in fact send a team to the Ukraine at the request of the Ukrainian government to assist in the official investigation into the downed plane

U.N. political chief Jeffrey Feltman, who briefed the council, expressed hope for "a serious and sustained effort to end the fighting and concentrate positively on Ukraine's future." He said Ban has asked him to return to Kiev and Moscow in the coming days to promote peace efforts.

___

AP writer Matthew Pennington contributed from Washington.





United States builds its case against Russia



The U.S. starts to focus on pro-Russia separatists as the main culprits in the shooting down of Flight MH17.
'Clear where responsibility lies'



"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

+1
Luis Miguel Goitizolo

1162
61587 Posts
61587
Invite Me as a Friend
Top 25 Poster
Person Of The Week
RE: ARE WE NOW IN THE END TIMES?
7/19/2014 11:06:55 AM

Israel troops battle Hamas, uncover Gaza tunnels

Associated Press



Watch original video

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israel pounded Hamas rocket launchers, uncovered more than a dozen cross-border tunnels and engaged in gunbattles with Palestinian militants Saturday on the second day of its open-ended ground operation in Gaza, as the Palestinian death toll there topped 300.

The Israeli military said that during its first 24 hours on the ground troops were mostly staying close to the border area and had discovered 13 tunnels into Israel — some as deep as 30 meters (yards) — that could be used to carry out attacks.

The military also said that in 12 days of fighting it has hit 2,350 targets in Gaza, including 1,100 rocket launchers, and severely diminished the arsenal of Hamas, the Islamic militant group that controls the coastal territory.

Militants have meanwhile fired more than 1,600 rockets since the latest round of fighting began on July 8. Rocket fire continued overnight, including one that landed in a residential neighborhood in the southern Israeli city of Ashdod, causing no injuries.

"We have struck hard on the two main strategic assets of Hamas: the rockets and these tunnels," said Israeli military spokesman Lt. Col. Peter Lerner.

Gaza Health Ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Kidra said overnight airstrikes raised the death toll from the 12-day offensive to more than 310 Palestinians, many of them civilians and about a fifth of them children. An Israeli soldier was killed after the start of the ground operation, likely from friendly fire, and an Israeli civilian was killed earlier this week.

Israel says it has encountered little resistance on the ground so far, and has killed about 20 militants in sporadic gunbattles. Three soldiers were wounded in overnight fighting, one seriously, the military said.

In one case, it said troops encountered a man who appealed for medical assistance before pulling out grenades and trying to hurl them at soldiers. He was shot dead. Troops also encountered a donkey with explosives strapped to it.

Casualties could mount quickly if and when the military moves into urban areas.

Israel launched the ground operation late Thursday after hundreds of airstrikes on the Hamas-ruled territory failed to halt unrelenting rocket fire that has increasingly targeted major Israeli cities.

An Egyptian truce proposal was rejected by Hamas, which has ruled Gaza since 2007 and has demanded the lifting of an Israeli and Egyptian blockade as part of any cease-fire agreement.

In a fresh effort to broker a truce, U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon was to leave Saturday for the Middle East to help mediate the Gaza conflict. A cease-fire is "indispensable" for urgently needed humanitarian efforts to succeed, the under-secretary-general for political affairs Jeffrey Feltman told an emergency meeting of the Security Council on Friday.

Israeli officials have said the offensive could last up to two weeks. The military reported making steady progress but said dozens of tunnels remain and would not give a time frame for its operation.

Israel's military chief, Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz, visited troops on the Gaza border early Saturday and said "a strategic national patience is necessary" to complete the mission.

The sound of tank fire and heavy machine guns mixed with the mosques' morning call to prayer along the Gaza-Israel border Saturday. Hamas said it has fired anti-tank missiles at Israeli troops.

Gaza militants have remained defiant despite the rising death toll.

"The Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip will not surrender to the enemy and will not raise the white flag," Ziad Nakhala, a leader in the Islamic Jihad militant group, told a Palestinian radio station. "We are open to all possibilities as long as the enemy does not respond to the demands of the resistance."

Hamas has survived Israeli offensives in the past, including a major three-week ground operation in January 2009 and another weeklong air offensive in 2012, but in each case the militant group recovered. It now controls an arsenal of thousands of rockets, some long range and powerful, and it has built a system of underground bunkers.

But Hamas is weaker than it was during the previous two offensives, with little international or even regional support from its main allies, Turkey and Qatar. Protests against the offensive took place Friday in Turkey, Jordan and the West Bank.

___

Heller reported from Tel Aviv.


View Gallery


Israeli military uncovers Gaza tunnels


Troops discover 13 cross-border tunnels during Israel's first 24 hours of ground operations.
Sporadic gun battles

"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

+1
Luis Miguel Goitizolo

1162
61587 Posts
61587
Invite Me as a Friend
Top 25 Poster
Person Of The Week
RE: ARE WE NOW IN THE END TIMES?
7/19/2014 5:30:04 PM

Ukraine crisis shows divisions in old Soviet bloc

Associated Press

In this photo taken on Monday, July 14, 2014, a woman passes by posters that express Polish opposition to Russia, in Warsaw, Poland. The posters imply a comparison of Russia today with Adolf Hitler’s Germany. They say “Achtung Russia,” German for “Beware of Russia,” with a reference to the SS, a brutal Nazi unit. President Barack Obama’s visit to Warsaw last month brought a wave of relief in Poland. Fears were running high over Russian aggression in Ukraine, and Obama’s pledge of security protections for his NATO partner was just the message the Poles were craving. (AP Photo/Alik Keplicz)



WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland's foreign minister had sharp words on the downing of the Malaysia Airlines jumbo jet in Ukraine — blaming the crash on Russia-backed "bandits." But throughout most of central and eastern Europe, leaders withheld judgment, expressing shock but refusing to say more until more facts are in.

The caution is not surprising: Several former Soviet satellite states have developed closer economic ties to Russia in recent years, making them unwilling to take a strong stand against Moscow in the Ukraine conflict. Though all have condemned Russia's annexation of Crimea, they are divided over what to do beyond that, differences dictated largely by the depth of those economic ties — and whether they feel at risk themselves from Moscow's might.

With uncertainty surrounding Thursday's plane crash, most have little to gain from pointing fingers, especially since the tragedy, which killed 298 people, is unlikely to blunt Russia's growing clout in the region, experts say.

"No one should expect change in the relations between Russia and any of the central European countries unless clear evidence of Moscow's involvement is presented," said Dariusz Kalan, an analyst with the Polish Institute of International Affairs. "Even then, a radical turn would be unlikely since the political, economic and energy contacts are so developed."

"A temporary and mostly rhetorical chill of relations with Russia is the heaviest reply that the region can afford," Kalan added.

Other experts argued, however, that confirmation of Russian involvement in the crash would force the region to take a harder stance against Moscow.

In some ways, divisions in the former Soviet bloc mirror tensions further West: France and Germany have continued to cultivate business ties with Russia, while the United States has taken a stronger line. On the plane crash, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said there's still "no clarity," showing more caution than the United States, with President Barack Obama linking the crash to "sophisticated equipment ... coming from Russia."

"We have to be careful not to impose Cold War cliches on the region," said Jakub Groszkowski, an analyst with the Center for Eastern Studies in Warsaw. "The governments in Prague or Bratislava are acting in a similar way to cabinets in Paris or Vienna."

But Russia's old Soviet bloc neighbors do face uniquely wrenching choices. The region has a history of dependence on Russian oil and natural gas. Economic ties deepened further after the global financial crisis of 2008-09 pushed several countries to forge new economic deals with Russia. When Western markets shrank, export-oriented countries like the Czech Republic turned to Russia, China and elsewhere for new opportunities.

Those who back the toughest stance toward Russia are Poland, the three Baltic states and Romania — all countries that fear for their own safety due to proximity to Russia and which, unlike their neighbors, are trying to limit Russian influence at home. The large numbers of ethnic Russians in Estonia and Latvia — 25 and 30 percent of the populations respectively — add to Baltic anxieties.

After the plane crash, Baltic leaders called for an international investigation and many politicians there quickly blamed Moscow for its role as an alleged weapons supplier to the Ukrainian separatists. The disaster underscores "the need to put an end to the domineering of separatist armed groups backed by Russia," Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves said Friday.

Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski said he was concerned about reports that the Ukrainians have captured recordings of phone conversations that indicate the pro-Russian separatists might be responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

"This is how things end when you supply bandits with advanced weapons," Sikorski said.

His comments are consistent with Poland's longstanding anxieties of Russia's resurgence. Since the crisis broke out in Ukraine this year, Poland has been seeking more security protections from NATO and the United States, leaving Poles hugely relieved when Obama pledged to do more to protect the region during his visit to Warsaw last month.

But the relief was not universal across the former Soviet bloc. Czech and Slovak leaders made clear they don't see a need for increased security and would not welcome NATO troops. Prime Minister Robert Fico of Slovakia, like Poland a NATO member, even likened "foreign troops" to the Soviet soldiers who invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968.

Hungary and Bulgaria have been pursuing new deals that increase their energy dependence on Russia. The most controversial is South Stream, a planned pipeline opposed by the EU that would bring Russian gas under the Black Sea to Bulgaria, Hungary, Serbia and Austria. Bulgaria tapped a consortium headed by Gennady Timchenko, an oligarch close to the Kremlin who is on the U.S. sanctions list, to build its part of the pipeline.

Bulgaria is probably the most pro-Russian country in the region, with sympathies born of a Slavic brotherhood rooted in past alliances. The current government and its supporters include former communists, adding to Western worries that some in the ruling circle could be working secretly for Russia's interests from within NATO and the 28-nation European Union.

The shift toward Russia is more surprising in the Czech Republic. Only a few years ago it agreed to host a U.S. missile defense site, a plan that sparked Moscow's anger. Obama has since dropped plans for the Czech site.

The left-wing Social Democrats, who opposed the missile defense plan all along, are now in power. In a change from the Vaclav Havel-era focus on human rights, Prime Minister Bohuslav Sobotka says it makes no sense to halt business with Russia because other countries would just take it over. He warns against creating "a new Iron Curtain between the European Union and Russia."

"The Czechs feel safer than, say, the Baltic states since they are surrounded by NATO members and Austria," Groszkowski said. "But they worry their economy could worsen due to tensions between the EU and Russia."

In Slovakia, Fico, the prime minister, has repeatedly said he wants to remain "a reliable partner" for Russia, though he also vows the nation will meet its obligations as a NATO member.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has radically changed his tone toward Moscow since he entered the political scene as a young revolutionary in 1989 with a fiery speech calling on Soviet troops to leave. Since taking power in 2010, the 51-year-old has deepened his country's energy ties with Russia, Hungary's biggest trading partner outside the EU.

Orban tapped a Russian company, Rosatom, to expand the country's only nuclear facility, a 12 billion-euro ($16.2 billion) deal granted without an open tender — but with the promise of a loan from Russia.

___

Associated Press writers Jari Tanner in Tallinn, Estonia; Karel Janicek in Prague; Veselin Toshkov in Sofia, Bulgaria; Pablo Gorondi in Budapest, Hungary; and Alison Mutler in Bucharest, Romania contributed to this report.

___

Follow Vanessa Gera at https://twitter.com/VanessaGera




Ukraine crisis shows divisions in old Soviet bloc



Russia's economic importance to central Europe is tempering its leaders' responses to the jet crash.
Who is talking tough



"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

+1
Luis Miguel Goitizolo

1162
61587 Posts
61587
Invite Me as a Friend
Top 25 Poster
Person Of The Week
RE: ARE WE NOW IN THE END TIMES?
7/19/2014 5:39:55 PM

Ukraine says Russia helping destroy crash evidence

Ukraine says Russia helping separatists destroy evidence at Malaysia Airlines crash site


Associated Press

>>

HRABOVE, Ukraine (AP) -- Ukraine accused Russia on Saturday of helping separatist rebels destroy evidence at the crash site of a Malaysia Airlines plane shot down in rebel-held territory — a charge the rebels denied.

As dozens of victims' bodies lay in bags by the side of the road baking in the summer heat, international monitors at the crash site Saturday said they were still being hampered by heavily armed rebels.

"Some of the body bags are open and the damage to the corpses is very, very bad. It is very difficult to look at," OSCE spokesman Michael Bociurkiw told reporters in a phone call from the site, where the smell of decaying bodies was unmistakable.

He said the 24-member delegation was given further access Saturday to the crash site but their movements were being limited by the rebels. The site sprawls eight square miles (20 square kilometers) across sunflower and wheat fields between two villages in eastern Ukraine.

"We have to be very careful with our movements because of all the security," Bociurkiw said. "We are unarmed civilians, so we are not in a position to argue with people with heavy arms."

Flight 17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was carrying 298 people from 13 nations when it was shot down Thursday in eastern Ukraine close to the Russian border, an area that has seen months of clashes between government troops and pro-Russia separatists.

At an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council, the U.S. pointed blame at the separatists, saying Washington believes the jetliner likely was downed by an SA-11 missile and "we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel."

The government in Kiev said militiamen have removed 38 bodies from the crash site and have taken them to the rebel-held city of Donetsk. It said the bodies were transported with the assistance of specialists with distinct Russian accents.

The rebels are also "seeking large transports to carry away plane fragments to Russia," the Ukrainian government said Saturday.

In Donetsk, separatist leader Alexander Borodai denied that any bodies had been transferred or that the rebels had in any way interfered with the work of observers. He said he encouraged the involvement of the international community in assisting with the cleanup before the conditions of the bodies worsens significantly.

As emergency workers put some 80 bodies into bags Saturday, Bociurkiw stressed that his team was not at the site to conduct a full-scale investigation.

"We are looking at security on the perimeter of the crash site, looking at the status in the condition of the bodies, the status in the condition of the debris, and also personal belongings," he said.

Ukraine also called on Moscow to insist that the pro-Russia rebels grant international experts the ability to conduct a thorough, impartial investigation into the downing of the plane — echoing a demand that President Barack Obama issued a day earlier from Washington.

"The integrity of the site has been compromised, and there are indications that vital evidence has not been preserved in place," Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said at a news conference in Kuala Lumpur.

He called for immediate access for Malaysia's team at the site to retrieve human remains.

Ukraine says it has passed along all information on developments relating to Thursday's downing to its European and U.S. partners.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed in a phone call Saturday that an independent, international commission led by the International Civil Aviation Organization, ICAO, should be granted swift access to the crash site, said government spokesman Georg Streiter.

The commission should examine the circumstances of the crash and recover the victims, said Streiter, adding that Merkel urged Putin to use his influence over the separatists to make that happen.

In the Netherlands, forensic teams fanned out across the country Saturday to collect material including DNA samples that will help positively identify the remains of the 192 Dutch victims.

Police said in a tweet that 40 pairs of detectives from the National Forensic Investigations Team would be visiting victims' relatives over the coming days.

The location of the black boxes remains a mystery and the separatist leadership remained adamant Saturday that it had not located them. Bociurkiw also said he had received no information on their whereabouts.

Aviation experts say, however, not to expect too much from the flight data and cockpit voice recorders in understanding how Flight 17 was brought down.

The most useful evidence that's likely to come from the crash scene is whether missile pieces can be found in the trail of debris that came down as the plane exploded, said John Goglia, a U.S. aviation safety expert and former National Transportation Safety Board member.

The operation of the Flight 17 doesn't appear to be an issue, he said.

Obama called the downing of the plane "a global tragedy."

"An Asian airliner was destroyed in European skies filled with citizens from many countries, so there has to be a credible international investigation into what happened," he said.

Both the White House and the Kremlin have called for peace talks in the conflict between Ukrainian government forces and Russian-speaking separatists who seek closer ties to Moscow. Heavy fighting took place Friday around Luhansk, less than 100 kilometers (60 miles) from the crash site, with 20 civilians reported killed.

Malaysia Airlines, meanwhile, said Saturday it has no immediate plans to fly the relatives of the 298 passengers and crew killed to visit the crash site in Ukraine because of security concerns.

A spokesman for the airline says next of kin are being cared for in Amsterdam while a team from the carrier, including security officials, was in Ukraine assessing the situation.

In the Netherlands, travelers flying out of Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport laid flowers and signed a condolence book before boarding their flights Saturday, including those on the latest Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 to Kuala Lumpur.

___

David McHugh in Kiev, Ukraine; Mstyslav Chernov in Donetsk, Ukraine; Michael Corder in Amsterdam and Frank Jordans in Berlin contributed to this report.


View Gallery





Pro-Russia militiamen have removed plane fragments and 38 bodies from the MH17 crash site, Kiev officials say.
'Russian proxies'



"Choose a job you love and you will not have to work a day in your life" (Confucius)

+1