Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results Discussion Topic @ AdlandPro Community

Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:52:26 GMT

I don't know about everyone else here at Adland but as you can see I am getting a lot of Spam in my forum.

This turns people off to the good info that is posted here so none of it gets the attention it deserves. I wish I had time to weed out all of the spam and post to help the good info be seen. Unfortunately I don't.

I would like to start a discussion about how to get the best results with ads and articles or posts. An education for those that may be spamming because they lack marketing knowledge. I know everyone has their own opinion and that should make for an interesting discussion!

If we as Adlanders create an interesting enough discussion and link it to outside entities, it will soon be seen all over the web.
I would like this to NOT have any advertising, only ideas and opinions that everyone reading can learn from. This will hopefully create a viral effect that will start to cut Spamming all over the web!

As our discussions spreads, so will the links to Adland and everyone involved. This will make a simple Adland Signature a powerful marketing tool.

I would appreciate all of my friends here at Adland joining me in the education for a spam free internet and hope that you all see the power of this discussion as I intend to use tactics I have learned setting up Success Patrol to push this Adland discussion to the top of search engines and bring in organic visitors to this forum, Adland Pro, Your posts and siglines.

I ask that you keep your posts professional and well researched. A small price for some free visitors.

Here are some questions to get things rolling....

What do you think SPAM is?
Does SPAM just apply to email?
Does Spam work? Do you read unsolicted mail and posts?
How is the best way you feel to educate to reduce SPAM on the internet?
How do you advertise without spamming?

Your honest opinion is what I am looking for....write it down! Thanks

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:11:14 GMT

Hello Scott,

I was just posting in my forum and you popped up with this great discussion and I couldn't resist putting in my pennyworth.

Spam, what is it?

When sent as an email it's also known as "junk" mail. No matter where the spamming takes place, the important word here is "junk".

I looked it up in the Oxford English Dictionary:

1) discarded articles, rubbish

2) anything regarded as of little value

3) slang for a narcotic drug especially heroin

4) verb-- discard as junk

Associated with "junk" is junk food, junk mail, junkie, junk shop......

So, junk is useless. We throw it away, so that there is room for the useful or valuable things. If we are good "friends" we do not put our rubbish through their physical letter box, and should therefore be just as considerate when posting in emails, forums etc online.

I don't believe spam works. Just as I would not appreciate my neighbour dumping their rubbish in my garden, I do not appreciate junk in my emails or being dumped in my forum. I delete the emails without reading them. In my Mother Earth forum I was very upset when someone posted their junk which had nothing to do the theme. I deleted that immediately too. It is a form of abuse really, in my mind.

Voila Scott. I think I've actually put two pennyworth!

Angel cuddles,

Sarah

Created By: sarahp

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:42:37 GMT

Thank you Sarah for your "two pennyworth"!

You and all of my friends are welcome to post any Ideas and opinions you have on helping to cut the "junk", "trash", "garbage", "spam" we all get on the internet any time. There is no pennyworth limit!...lol

I believe education of of new marketers and people just trying to make a few bucks online will help.

The professional spammers will eventually get shut down if the new marketers know not to fall for their "make millions schemes" and not to use their tactics because it only hurts them in the long run, not the pro's.

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:57:50 GMT

Hello Scott,

I crept back in.

Just to say that apart from ignoring the spam that comes in my inbox, I don't know what to do about that. I don't have time to read the spam to sift through it for anything useful to me.

As for forums we can teach by example with our own behaviour in posting.

When I delete spam from my forums, I send the person a pm explaining why I deleted it due to its inappropriateness to my forum theme. If everyone did that they would hopefully eventually get the message. Sometimes they are newbies and they welcome this advice.

I'll creep back out again now.

I suppose that makes it three pennyworth now!

Angel cuddles,

Sarah

Created By: sarahp

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:33:45 GMT

Hi again Sarah,

You are always welcome, no need for creeping.....lol
Thanks for your third pennyworth!

I don't have time to deal with spam even in my Adland forum it gets ahead of me. That is why I want to do something!

I just posted that to be the most help is to spread the word and get more people active....... Invite all of your adland friends to post their ideas and comments....... don't stop with Adland though, Spam is everywhere so we need to educate adout it everywhere. A small post on your blog reffering to this forum....... a message or post in other communities sending them here...... that may even get you some Adland signups if you are an affiliate!

If all of us get the educate a couple of people about spam, we have started a viral education about spam and will give many people new ideas about how to market that will help them start earning money with their online business......... we just made the internet better!

Thank you again for your posts here..... please keep them coming!
Try a post or two in other places and lets see what happens!

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:28:16 GMT

Hi Scott,

That's a lot of questions...

One person's junk (or spam) is another person's treasure!

Something important to keep in mind is...when we're looking for people to join a business, we need to find LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE. Approximately 3% of the general public are interested in joining a homebased money-making opportunity, BUT a much greater number of people who are members of online networking communities such as Adlandpro are very interested in joining businesses.

Another thing, reading and clicking on the links in messages will tell us a few things...how well-written the message is...AND more importantly, how much that person has spent and is willing to spend on joining a business. The amount of money spent and potentially will spend in the future is of vital importance to those of us who are seeking people to join our businesses, AND their motivation to advertise! All marketers are looking for people with motivation and a willingness to make investments in programs and advertising.

Spam or junk mail gives us obvious clues if we're looking for them and willing to read and click for more information, maybe not to join that person's business, but to get a better idea of whether they'd be a good addition to our own programs.

IN THE WORLD OF REAL POSTAL MAIL, I get lots of chain letters almost every day, and the first thing I think is..."I can't believe people join these things and make copies and buy stamps and expect money!" The next thing I wonder is..."Did they really pay the dollar or few bucks to the person above them or just plop their name on this without paying?" THEN the most important thing I do is...reverse mail them my offers because I know they have money for making copies, buying envelopes, BUYING STAMPS, and the motivation to send mail out!! Even if they are chain-letter junkies, they still have proven to me that they have money to invest and the motivation to promote.

Created By: 5146

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:34:05 GMT

Thanks Kathleen!

First let me clarify about the questions.
You don't have to answer them all........ one is fine unless you have ideas or opinions on them all!

Sorry to make you think you HAD to answer them all......

Targeted advertising is the easiest way to improve your advertising RIO and cut down on spam. But just because you are sending to someone that has an interest in what you are offering doesn't mean you can send them an all out ad.
Before sending your ads, emails or any advertising, ask yourself if you would ........
1 Open it?
2 Read more than the first line?
3 Click on the provided link for more info or to buy?

Its the difference between giving someone information on something they asked about and dropping millions of fliers out of an airplane.
Targeted advertising only took a few fliers, not millions. There was no cost for the airplane, almost every flier guarantees a sale, and you won't get sued for littering........... makes more sense to me to target my advertising and start a conversation with them not just throw an ad in their face!

I have rules and filters set up in my email accounts to weed out the spam the IPs don't catch and luckly don't get much in post mail. I really don't have time to check emails for potential customers or even see if their product is anything i would be interested in. This saddens me that all the spam I have received in the past (and still am) has cut some nice people with great intentions out of my loop. This is one reason I am writing this.

I like your invite the spammers! This works with post mail and email. They have mailed you with their offer. They are interested in making money online so are a targeted lead that has opted in by sending you their offer. Don't expect much of a retun here, but you will get some responses.

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 30 May 2008 08:46:40 GMT

Hi Kathleen:

One person's junk (or spam) is another person's treasure! You are right in that, the problem starts when they send you a private email with an advertisement that do not even express the sender opinion, it is long unexpressive letter, with no way to learn what is this about and the only thing they empathize is that you are going to be a millionaire tomorrow, you just have to go to sleep and your Bank will be filled tonight.

Created By: Trulyconfident

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:55:17 GMT

HI Kathleen,
I have to agree.
I always encourage my members to read their emails.
I do teach people to email correctly and I'll tell you what,
it's still the best form of advertising I use.
And, if the forum category says "promotion" or "advertising"
you bet I'm going to add my ad! I always use tracking links
and I get a TON of business that way. So, somebody must
read it. Although, I do agree, there's a time and a place for
advertising.
Just my two cents.

Created By: maxaffiliate

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:01:19 GMT

Some
People
Are
Miss informed as to how to market and will do most anything to get thier add out to the people.

I was talking to a good friend about people taking shorcuts in business weather it be marketing, advertising, or running a business

Some shortcuts can good if you are experinced and you can pull these off with out hurting other's.

The fact that some people think this will work is sad because they are just spinning thier wheels and if they were to get educated in marketing and would use the same energy to grow a business that they are using to tarnish thier name or jeopardize their intern et connection or both.

They would be better off and probably a good marketer.

But with this spam stuff they are just playing with Internet FIRE !!

Created By: scwealth

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:46:13 GMT

Hey Scott,

It looks like you have, "Literally" , nailed down a major problem that affects everyone, including this community it seems. I fully understand that "This is an Advertising Community" , but that doesn't mean that you should just "Arbitrarily" start sending messages loaded down with nothing but referral links.

It's really bad when you get "Multiple" messages from the same individual with the "Exact same condone and links" that was in the original message you received.

What ever happened with "Getting to know" the person you are going to present your "Opportunities" to? I mean, isn't that the "Purpose" of having friends here? Even "Big Businesses" realize the importance of "Getting to know what their current and prospective clients want or need"!

Personally I am more inclined to read a notice or look closer at an opportunity a lot closer if the sender didn't take such an " Obviously Pre-written, Strong Arm Tactics designed to do only one thing"! That is to draw me into a position that doesn't benefit anyone but the sender.

These are the same tactics used by these "Tele-Marketers over the phone. The ONLY difference being,"You can HANG UP" on them before they really get their "Ball" rolling. Sadly that isn't the case with E-mail, or messages.

Hopefully one day, someone will come up with better ways to communicate with others than what is currently being done. It's going to be very interesting seeing where this forum goes on this subject.

Steven G. Reid

Created By: steveng

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:12:04 GMT

Thanks Steven!

Jump on the band wagon and lets do what we can to stop spam in our communities and inboxes!

I need your help to!
Everyone doing a little to educate people on how not to spam will ad up to a huge viral spam education campaign!

And thats easy! just send them to this forum thread! I will be posting more spam education..... so send them here!

http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/thread/941397.aspx

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 30 May 2008 09:06:04 GMT

Hi: Steven

I fully understand that "This is an Advertising Community", but that doesn't mean that you should just "Arbitrarily" start sending messages loaded down with nothing but referral links. And what is worst, they are setting new threats and new forums with the title of their own business and invite you to join; there is not intention of discussion or learning something or sharing something.

In my opinion that is spam

Created By: Trulyconfident

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:53:44 GMT

Thanks Scott!

You are absolutely right!

Lets spread the word and help these people before they give up because of failure or get in legal trouble for spamming!

I think we can make a big....no HUGE difference from right here at Adland.
My goal for this forum thread is to blow out all of the Adland records for views and posts.... no small task but I already have outside hits coming in!

A couple of posts from everyone in outside communities linking to this thread http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/thread/941397.aspx

will help spread the word that we are sick of spam and are doing something about it by educating others about online marketing!

I have a post on one of my blogs to show everyone that just a small post will make a difference, click here to see it

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:13:27 GMT

Anyone wanting to help stop the spread of spam in their inboxes and communities can post a small blurb about spamming on other communities or forums and link to this forum.

Don't keep the education just in Adland! Help other communities to!
here is the link:
http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/thread/941397.aspx

You will be supprised how fast the word will spread!

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:43:26 GMT

Hi Scott.

Now this is what I call a lively discussion that will hopefully get people to learn the proper way to make comments or to forums.

I know there have been many forums on Adland itself about spamming. I have noted that people get a little riled about them by the way as though they are sick of it..dont want to hear it..and just go away please....I think the reasoning for the attitude is that as that with all kinds of advertising they are so bombarded with the same tiresome message.. people are tuning it out..

I sometimes feel that before we can educate, we need to understand the issues of spamming, how to post in forums, do blogs etc and then we can teach.

From my studies, what I am noting is that many people are so desperate to make money, that they just joining whatever seems the easiest. People are not taught basics of running a business in any way. They have been taught that they must get the message out..no matter how..without knowing what business they really are in.

They have been taught..if you can call it that, to just send out links then surely someone will sign up.

We are so bombarded with this particular message we just do it without thinking.

Worse yet, when you factor in that we are not given facts or rather a narrow vision of spamming, then people do not understand, and like this forum becomes viral in spreading the message.

The fact is..IT DOES NOT WORK!

It is only through conversation and people seeing us as experts on our business that we gain the credibility so that others will listen to us.

So how does one accomplish this?

I would like to talk about forums, comments at this time.

so...I am going to attempt to come from a different perspective:

You know you are a spammer when:

1 Say nothing unique or relevant to the post at hand. Make them assume an automated bot hit their comments/threads

2 Send pings to everyone talking about a subject. In your aggregation post, state nothing of interest. Only state that other people are talking about the topic.

3 Sign up for profiles on forums you never intend on commenting on.

4 As a new member to various forums, ask the same question at 20 different forums on the same day.

5 Post nothing but "me too" posts to build your post count. Use in combination with a link-rich signature file.

6 Submit your site to 200 cheesy paid directories (averaging $15 a pop) that send zero traffic and sell offtopic run-of-site links

7 Send pings to everyone talking about a subject. In your aggregation post, state nothing of interest. Only state that other people are talking about the topic.

8 Instead of asking people what their name is, ask what their URL is. As soon as you get their URL ask if they have linked to your site yet and if not, why not.

9 Don't even link to any of the sites you are pinging. Send them pings from posts that do not even reference them.

10 Post on forum threads that are years outdated exclusively to link to your semi-related website.

11 Start marketing your own site hard on your first blog comment or in forum thread. Add no value to the comment section or thread. Mention nothing other than you recently posted on the same subject at _____ and everyone should read it. Carpet bomb dozens of blogs/ forums/message boards with this message.

12. Please post your link on how to buy baby bottles in a forum on music. How does that tune go?

Do people need educatiing...You bet they do!

To Your Success.

Diane

Created By: helgit

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sun, 27 Jan 2008 02:16:44 GMT

Thank you Diane!

A very will researched and written post!

Now that is why I don't do content....lol

I started out this forum thread with the subject line "would you read your own ads and posts?" Then I just plain got excited about letting people know that I was trying to help with this problem.

Well sending yourself you email before you send it to anyone else is a good idea, I know that when I get in a hurry to send something or even when I am posting I have other things to do and try to hurry I make mistakes that could potentially get me into trouble but more than likely just loose future sales.......

If you haven't read it yet the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 will make for interesting reading and a must for anybody any email marketing at all.
Check out this info on Wikipedia, the law itself will scare you, the rest will make you want to do a lot of spam education!

CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 on Wikipedia

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sun, 27 Jan 2008 02:35:37 GMT

Thank you Webmaster...lol...another good source is also with Wikipedia
It has to do with Internet Spam in all forms.

I think many people mean well for the most part and really do not understand the ramifications at times.

I remember not that long ago, I met this person who, because of lack of knowledge, thought that on a forum he had to just get his message out on his "business". Of course it was censored. He talked to me on this and was very confused and a little hurt. Once he started learning( from us by the way) how to make himself credible and stay relevant, well you know what? He is getting highly credible and people are listening to him... this is what I call branding yourself...wow

Just thought I would share that.

You are doing great!

To Your Success Scott, now and always,

Diane

Created By: helgit

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 30 May 2008 09:46:17 GMT

Hi Diane:

I like your approach, definition of spam is what we need. The WE DO NOT TOLLERATE SPAM approach is not enough.

Adland Pro has many ways to advertise paid and for free; the problem is that people do not read, because when I first signed for a membership with AdlandPro I received something like 28 emails containing 7 lessons that taught me how to use the system in order to get the most out of it.

Now the problem out of AdlandPro is bigger because people know how to incriminate others and send emails with the address of an innocent individual as previously mentioned by Scott. No matter what the law states, but the fact is that 70% or more of the business in Internet are made thanks to e-mail.

Created By: Trulyconfident

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:52:10 GMT

Here is an excript from this web page I found on stopping all types of Spam from post mail, phone and electronic mail.
Read the rest of the page here:

http://www.obviously.com/junkmail/

To stop unwanted electronic mail ("SPAM")

It is very hard to effectively combat junk electronic mail. It costs nothing to send out a few million email messages, so there is no disincentive for people to do so. Most SPAM mailers forge the headers, email return address and sending machine name because they are sick of reading the thousands of inevitable complaints. The offers to remove your name from a list are generally untrue, and often result in your name getting added to yet another list. Many internet providers have policies against SPAM, and will take action. Unfortunately some providers either don't care or are SPAM-friendly. There are ways you can reduce exposure and complain:

Never never never reply to a SPAM email.
Complaints: SPAMers like to forge email. They forge email, and send it using innocent computers. The war of forgery has reached a level where the average person can't sort out who or where mail actually came from. If you want to complain, use the services of a system like SpamCop to process the mail.
Stamp out Get Rich Quick schemes: If you suspect fraud, send a copy of the mail to the National Fraud Information Center. If it relates to selling stocks, send to the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Secure your web page: If you include a "mailto" link, as below, expect to get junk mail. Remove the "mailto" and force people to manually enter the email address. State your email address in a way readable only to humans (e.g.. "recycle" at machine "obviously.com").
Secure your computer: If your PC is running a mail server (such as Sendmail or Exchange) it may be used by spammers. Spammers often hijack innocent machines. Check yourself at ORDB.
Use care with newsgroup postings: Post to a new group these days and you can be sure of getting both target SPAM (sports messages for posting in a sports group) and untargeted email. You can use an obviously false return address on postings: most news programs let you set this to whatever you want. Include your real email address (coded as above) in body of the message.
Complain to your Senator or Representative: Laws will be needed to regulate the eventual legitimate email advertising industry.

I would rather see marketers police the spam problem than more unenforceable laws, but we have to get started or the governments will take control.

(Be sure to go read the rest of the page..... lots more info there!)

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:10:04 GMT

When I start to read a post in a forum and it starts to adverise their items I move on and remember who posted it.

I have also deleted people from my Friends? emails if they just sent me an ad. Perhaps they want to contact me now but they had their chance.

Here at Adland there is enough of an ad in the signature line if people want to read it.

Created By: connections

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:11:39 GMT

I do tend to read my own ads, and posts, before submitting. It's the writer in me, and the need to proofread. Some spam I do open, and read, and sometimes even go further and click on the link. Depends if the subject line catches my attn. or not. Credit card offers, auto Insurance, even some online education things get deleted without my opening them. I do add to my Spam Blockers, that AOL gives me when senders get obnoxious about it. Most of the time, when I've asked to be removed from that email list, I have been removed. Some things end up in my Spam file, that I end up classifying as not being spam. I have a page at MySpace, not because I really like MySpace very much, but I was trying to promote articles I'd written through Helium, my online writing site. So there was a blog group I joined there, which was made up of other Helium writers. One day I got the same Insurance (I think,) email, over and over again, within seconds of each other. I got so mad, I emailed the person, and said some people would consider this to be spamming. I said I could understand sending me 1 message, even 2 in a row, if you thought the first hadn't gone through, but there was no need to send me 4 in a row, one right after another and to change her user name, just so I'd think it came from somebody else. Both first names, started with a "J" just as mine does. I wrote that this will turn people off, who won't respond to you at all, or buy your product, and some will report you, if you keep doing this. I didn't report her, but told her if she did it again, I would report her. I didn't get any more spam from her after that. So in some cases, it is a matter of education. I guess I'm more accepting of spam, as one of the bad tradeoffs re: the Internet. But I wish I had some gizmo at home, that I could just aim and press that glorious delete key, to get rid of all the junk mail here, as easily as I can do a group delete, to get spam off of my computer. I suppose I take the attitude most of the time, that this person is just trying to make a living too, by promoting whatever it is they're promoting to me. I hope you won't consider that I'm spamming now, but I wrote a post to my blog, about my first impressions when I first joined AdlandPro. Read it only if you have a sense of humor. As I talk about the Instant Friendships I got here within a few hours of signing up. But it did give me something to write about. So Thank you AdlandPro! :-) I mention it now because that was also mentioned in this discussion, from Steven Reid. http://janspromoplace.blogspot.com/2008/01/internet-marketing-beginners.html When I've lurked at some of the forums here, instead of seeing people adding to the discussion of that thread, they are placing their promo ads there, which have nothing at all to do with the discussion. That would aggravate me if it was my started forum, as the discussion doesn't seem to go anywhere, or those ads get it off track. But at the same time, this is a community of affiliate marketers and website owners, so I guess it doesn't surpise me too much that it does happen here as well as at other places. There are more spam blockers in place today, but I'm not sure if we can totally stop it from occurring? But I'm also one of those people, who only rarely forwards on jokes, or quotes kind of stuff to my friends, or even the things promoting good causes. Most of the time I just don't bother doing it. Partly because I know some people use their computers for business use, and don't want to be bothered with it. And that it also ties up an overcrowded Internet System. So I guess you better count on me, as being the person who will break the chain email you might send me, since I don't often forward things on to other people. :-)
Created By: 347777

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:42:26 GMT

Hi Jan,

Spammers could learn a lot from you!
Your blog fits in fine so it is by no means spamming. (I thought the same thng when I started! lol)

Very well done!

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:01:01 GMT

Hi Scott,

First off, thanks for removing that earlier reply I made to this forum. It just got a little "Too Long" in the tooth.. In fact, I was going back through it in note pad, adding some more and deleting some, and ended with an almost 700 word article!.

Spam is definitely getting to be a major problem. It might help a lot of folks if before they send out an e mail, post in a forum, or any other means that they use for advertising , if they would go "Back" through what they have written and see what they might need to change.

For example:

Title or Subject.. does it appear blatant or offensive to the reader, or does it entice them to read further.
Does it appear to be nothing more than a "Pre-written" message or article that's already been used time and time again without being revised.
Is the message loaded down with nothing but referral links, or "Buy This Now"?

Sometimes it "Would be Nice" especially in these forums, if someone who Wanted to start a new "Forum Thread" in someone else's forum, If they would first contact the owner,and request permission to do so.

Anyway, hat's just a few of My takes on Spam. It will be interesting watching where this will finally end up. Good work my friend!

Steven

Created By: steveng

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:25:40 GMT

Hi Steven,

Thanks for the great guidelines! I find that if I hurry and post something without carefully going over it, I usually find that it has mistakes or doesn't sound the way I originally thought it did when I wrote it.

Another way of double checking before posting is.
Write down and save your post or article, then research a little about what you just wrote. You will find that when you come back you will see ways of changing it for the better.
Posting or writing ads and articles on the fly will hurt you in the end. If you are lucky enough to not be noticed as Spam...... the people that do see your post will discount you as a bad writer or marketer........ It will be hard to overcome that first impression!

Now that you mention it...... I believe that I have only been asked twice before someone has started a new thread in my forum here at Adland.

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:26:28 GMT

Hi Sherley,

I realize people get excited about what they are promoting, I am guilty of it to. But my opinion is it is getting out of hand and I think maybe a little education for spammers wil help.

Adland community is based on advetising but doing it right will get you much better results.
A proper signature line below a well done post or article is a very powerfull marketing tool!

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:11:21 GMT

Hello Scot,
I am afraid to post - do not want yelled at! LOL!

Brad & I have been trying to help people at another community (we are admin). So many people post in the comments area & only place their ad or banner... If you go to their profile page it is just an ad, no picture of themself, sometimes they even shut off the comments on their own page.

So, I deal with SPAM not so much in emails but in posting comments on other peoples profiles. Although it is the same to me. It is just a bunch of unwanted junk.

I have NEVER joined with or bought from an ad. No matter how great the ad is. I join with a person. I want to feel that I somehow connect with them. If you have no picture & no nothing about yourself - I think you are wasting the best part of your page.

In fact I have more to say about this but, I have to go over to the other site & do my morning deleting!

I will be back. Sorry to be short on time.

Sheryl Loch ~ allmylovecrafts

How are you branding yourself???
As a spammer???

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:15:35 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

Don't be afraid!

I think spam is a thorn in everyones side and want your opinions and advise!
Hope fully those people that are spamming your forums and communities will see this and learn from it.

I beleive we can catch more flies with honey than spam.

How do you set up your profiles and post in other communities?

You are welcome any time, I am looking forward to the rest of your post

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:03:59 GMT

Hi Sheryl:

I am also fed up with spam, so I am reading all and each one of the posts in this tread to see if I learn something new that will help me manage that situation.

Today I read two times your post of 01-29-2008 01:11 PM, because I can not believe you said “I have NEVER joined with or bought from an ad. No matter how great the ad is”

Well… excuse me but if you have a business you have to advertise using all the resources available, in the hope somebody see it, remember it and buy when the time is right for them.

Advertisement is totally different from spamming.

In both cases there is a person or a group of people trying to deliver a message to you, the problem is when they are bombarding you or me with the same pre-written long text that if you read all, you just learn that you have to pay $49.99 (or so) to barely understand what is this about because if you really what to know the whole idea you have to pay more or get a subscription to something.

Another thing that is spam for me is when a person open a forum to discuss about spam and people answer with a prewritten advertise (nothing to do with the subject).

Any way spam is annoying; advertising should be informative.

I really like what Jan Sterrett posted on 01-29-2008 01:11 PM (same day and time)

Regards,

Created By: Trulyconfident

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:43:31 GMT

Internet advertising should be informitive and raising awareness around the net I hope will help.

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:21:12 GMT

Would you read your own ads and posts?

Here is a great example of a thread posted right after this thread. You can tell this person was interested in what I have to say......lol

How many signups do you think he will get from this post?

New Thread in my forum

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:05:09 GMT

Hey Scott,
I think it would be great if all the GDI people jumped this guy & let him know they do not want him representing the company this way.

If I see a company & many of the members are spammers - I would not join that company no matter who ask.

People need to protect not only their own name but also the company the belong to.
Members of a program need to police themselves!

They should not use the excuse that the person may drop out & then they will have less members - Because, I will not joining & neither will many others when they think a company approves of spam.

I went to his profile & yes, no pic, no about me (well except a sentence I really do not believe). If he was making money & had honest business ethics - he would show his face. I know that pic's & about me's do not mean someone is forthright in business (we have pictures of scammers here at Adland) but, it would atleast give you a start to knowing who they are.

That is what I had mentioned in my last post here.

Ok, I am off to chew up spam & spit it out!!!

Sheryl Loch ~ allmylovecrafts

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:48:46 GMT

Hi Sheryl:

After reading that particular post and your reply to Scott, I decided to look up the terms for this company at:

http://www.gdipm.com/terms.php

They have, like many businesses put in the definition and email marketing, but nothing about forums, etc.

I have noted many businesses are the same in this regard. It would be interesting to see how other businesses address this particular issue.

This begs the question, who do we hold responsible..the businesses or the people?

How do we educate when the businesses are not putting all the information in to explain spamming in all its forms?

I hope Scott, you dont mind me asking these questions and thank you for letting me ask this question..or is that questions.

To Your Success,

Diane

Created By: helgit

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:37:17 GMT

Hi Diane,

You will find I stated earlier that I welcome all questions and opinions.

Thank you for your post and research.

If I may voice my opinions on your questions?

All internet businesses have spam policies but are geared to just cover them for CAN- Spam laws. Generally only covering email.

Success Patrol has a Spam Policy that includes any people, groups, news groups, and forums. But is one of a few.

Please post a link to the spam policy of any business you are in that is currently addressing the spam issue further than email, it will be interesting (and good for the businesses) to see who is proactive in cutting spam all over the internet.

Who is responsible for spam?

Everyone that uses or allows it!

How do we educate when businesses do not supply enough spam info?

Just keep talking about it, learning about it, turning in blatant spammers to the companies they are affiliated with, teaching new marketers we meet "the right way", talking to the companies we are affiliated with and updating their spam policies.

If everyone asks the people they know to voice their opinion in this forum (and ad any documentation they might have access to), link it to communities that may be having problems with spam (or need to educate new members), our education base will grow with each post and our spam education will become viral......

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Mon, 04 Feb 2008 01:54:29 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

Getting all worked up about a what it sounds like is a professional spammer (no pic or info in his profile) is a waste of energy.
Letting the company he is affiliated with know he is spamming however is a good idea.
I would not let a member continue in my business if I was notified of actions like his.

I believe we as marketers have to police ourselves and can not let this continue as it has been.
I know there is talk of new laws to govern spam internet wide, and am sorry that I do not have more info on them now.

I will be investigating the proposed laws and welcome anyone to comment with any info they have.

Wouldn't it be better to clean it up ourselves so it won't impact the marketers of integrity than have governments that think everything on the internet is bad to come up with laws that could shut down Internet marketing completely?

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Thu, 07 Feb 2008 17:21:43 GMT

Hello Scott,
As for ranting on about people filling out their profile - I do not find it a waste of energy because I have seen to many people that will take the time to fill it out once it is brought to their attention that they are loosing potential customers because they did not take the 10 minutes to do it. I know that new people will pop around looking at threads & if they see this one & take the advise then that is good enough for me. I know not everyone will do it but, I only worry about the ones that truly want to be successful & are willing to put forth the effort.

If someone can not take the time to fill out a profile then I doubt they will take the time to explain the program or help me learn about it or promote it properly.

I belonged to a company & went through a problem with another member spamming forums. These were the regular forums (not Adland). I am a forum owner & also know several other forum owners so this was embarrassing for her to represent the same company as me in this way. I contacted her a few times & finally got mad & posted right under her spam ads saying that this company does NOT allow members to spam. After about 5 post she contacted the owner of the company to report me for undermining her advertising. HA!!! I had already told them I had had it with her ruining the company name. Needless to say they put her in her place. She just stopped posting in forums. But, others in the company then contacted me & ask where can they post ads in forums & how do you work them. They had been following the example of their upline. Some people are to lazy to do anything but spam others just do not know a better way.

As for all the PM ads - I have missed real messages because I do not even look at most PM's anymore. I am ready to start blocking people - I wish I could just remove from my list but, I think blacking is the only solution right now. I hate to do that because it shows on their stats. I have a couple of people that send me PM ads 5 times a week.
Trust me I post enought that I can see peoples sig lines - If I find something new or that I want to know about I will look & contact the person for more info. I have made more money off my sig line than I ever have off ads.

Ok, enough rambling. I will get off my soap box for now.
Sheryl Loch ~ allmylovecrafts

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:20:47 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

I am hoping if we make a little noise about it, maybe some people will read the info we give in this little forum thread. Possibly even ask questions and learn to get good results from their marketing efforts instead of everybody ignoring them because of their tactics.

I am also using this forum thread as info for sites outside Adland so I welcome any information and Ideas that will teach others better marketing habits and how the people really feel that receive their wonderful ads in places they shouldn't.

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:49:30 GMT

I have noticed Scott, something that is happening to many on Adland and that is all the private messages being sent to a "friends list", which are nothing but advertisements. I have often wondered if these things actually work!

Since when does marketing to other marketers really go anywhere? While I totally agree in sharing ideas, as that is what Adland is about, I have to ask a question and that is where do you draw the line?

It would not be so bad if, there was actually content, something to explain where these people are coming from, but I have noted that out and out advertising on private messages are becoming the norm rather than the exception.

I did not know Adland was another safelist!

I wonder what others feel about this?

To Your Success

Diane

Created By: helgit

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:42:33 GMT

Hello Scott and Diane,

    That's another thing I've noticed more and more lately. I have noticed lately. the addition of "Targeted Messages" offered to upgraded members. Now this by itself is fine, being benefit of upgrading here at Adland.

    Where I'm seeing the problem at though, is I'm getting more and more of these "Business programs" that read just like so many e mails I've opened and couldn't even understand as it looked like one Giant Word Search Puzzle.

    Also these messages seem like the writer is just going through the "People Search here and sending these messages even though they don't even know the person they are sending it to. That by itself defeats the benefit of the "Targeted Message".

    These "senders" really need to stop and think about what they are doing, and how they are going about it. All they are succeeding in is showing how little they know or care about about working online let alone Succeeding at it. Obviously they don't care about their integrity either.

    'Nuff said. Thanks for letting me "Rant" a little here. Now let's see if we can't "Help" these "Waifes" learn a better way.

Steven

Created By: steveng

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 05 Feb 2008 03:24:11 GMT

Thanks Steven,

Can you give an example of how people should us PMs in communities like Adland?

Any one else have any Ideas?

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 05 Feb 2008 06:02:45 GMT

Hi Scott,

Will give it the old college try lol.

I would probably do it something along these lines:

Hello,

I have only been on line for a short while as compared to many other people. I have always thought that there was a good chance to earn a good living on the Net, and have seen some pretty good ideas there.

If you would care to, maybe we could talk some more and share ideas on what works and what doesn't work.

I look forward to talking more with you soon.
(signed)

Something like that I think would give both people the time needed to better understand not only the other individual, but what their thoughts and ideas are like as well.

Hopes this helps my friend.

Steven G. Reid

Created By: steveng

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:25:41 GMT

HI Steven,

That sure is better than PMing me your ad, but do you think you will get a response?
You have the right Idea here but just like posting or writing an article, you must do research....... find a reason you want to talk to this person and let them know you liked how they did this or that you are interested in learning about the system they had posted about.............. Its more work ...yes...... but almost guaranteed results.
Or like Sarah posted in the post after yours, ( A novel Idea BTW) use the PMs for what they are named....... Personal messages. Maybe we need PAs (Personal Ads) for the spammers? We can just send them to the trash..... lol

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:49:24 GMT

Hi Scott:

You and I are thinking very similar here.....lol

Considering that the PM's are to me, personal...a way to say hi or maybe ask for help, I decided that I am going to help them. If sombody sends me an ad, then if there is good content, great, I will do the curtesy of reading, then I can give a good judgement. If it is just a generic ad from a persons company, then I will let them know that these type of ads, really dont work. I delete them as they have nothing to say.....boring!

I hope it helps them, because as you know Scott we really want people to succeed.

To Your Success,

Diane

Created By: helgit

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:27:31 GMT

Hi Diane,

That sounds like a great way to let the new marketers know they are doing something wrong, or right if you like their ad.

This may be worth a try.....THANKS

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:42:39 GMT

Thanks Diane!

I was thinking the same thing as I was going through my emails this evening!

I very seldom read my Adland PMs ........ I just look at the subject line, see that they are all just ads and select all.......... delete......

This is killing some good learning communication lines and if nothing is done, no one will ever see anyone else's messages.

Just like safe lists where you sign up with one email for admin to get in touch with you on and the "list" email that has a mass delete.

As you sign up for these, especially the ones that instruct you to get a "junk email address" so you can mass delete. Don't you think.... "How does anyone ever see my emails if they all go to junk emails that no one looks at?"

I know I have learned a lot of wrong ways to market the hard way and I don't want any of you to if I can help it.

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:13:09 GMT

Diane & Scott et al,

Diane was wondering how others felt about the pm advertisements.

Adland is for sharing business info. I see the DC for advertisements and updating of "friends" on what is going on, say in my newest forum thread or other people's forums. I did send a DC out pointing people in the direction of this forum thread.

I see PMs for the more personal friendly touch, for getting to know each other, for actually finding the like minded people, who become true friends or associates.

I will give you an example. If someone is unwell, I will contact them to offer them some Reiki. That is nothing to do with business.

I'm not saying that I don't think we should discuss business in PMs. That does often happen too, but the ultimate word here is "discuss". This is not shout in the face of the recipient with an advert. That is a turn off.

Someone may have said that they are having difficulty doing something, for example nominating their photo in the POTW forum or graphics in a forum thread. I will pm them explaining how to do it, or point them in the direction where they can find help. Again this is being friendly and helpful (and may even be the start of an online business relationship). It is not let me shout my newest business advert at you.

Hopefully, I've shown where I draw the line. There are other examples, but I wanted to keep it simple and straight forward, as black and white as poss.

Angel cuddles,

Sarah

Created By: sarahp

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:44:44 GMT

Hi Sarah,

You are right.

PMs are for personal messages....... communication between just 2 people. More private than in a public forum.

Besides, Adland Pro has a super clasified ad section, I think if we want something we can look there.........

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:17:17 GMT

Hi Scott,

This is part of a letter I recieved today from an Adlander:

Hi.

Thanks for writing.

Adland Pro sells ads and they can go a number of different ways. Sometimes I buy the ads and they go through email. Other times they go to the Adland Pro inbox. They send either way when you purchase.

I have been hunting to find out how this can be done and to date can find no information....maybe somebody can help with this?

To me, this does not sound right...... at the very least, should not a person have the option to say no to this kind of advertising?

Any thoughts on this would be very useful.

thanks Scott

Diane

Created By: helgit

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 08 Feb 2008 02:11:39 GMT

Hi Diane,

Paid Adlanders have the new Targeted Direct Contact which will end up in your PM inbox and the email that receives your Adland notifications.

This is a paid service of Adland Pro, a benefit for paid members.

Maybe a little feedback on this benefit is warranted.....???

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:43:48 GMT

Hi, When I first signed up at AdlandPro, I got over 40 requests wanting to be my "friend". I've never made so many friends so quickly in all my life. LOL! Many of those requests were promoting something or other to me, which kind of amused me, and surprised me at the same time. I joined here as a free member. When I tried to send a bulk email I was supposed to gather those email addresses, from people all using the same forum thread. How do I even figure that out? Not everyone posts in forums, and they sure aren't all going to post in the exact same forum. I did a manual copy and paste and sent one email to a small number of people, but it was very time consuming. Is there a way as a free member here, where I can send a bulk emailing out without spamming, and without having to do a manual copy and paste? Any suggestions how I go about doing this? I don't have an autoresponder yet. But even if I did, I don't understand how I can email any AdlandPro people when their email addresses are coming from AdlandPro, and probably have something like noreply in their addresses. That seems to be affiliate marketers promoting to other affiliate marketers which doesn't make much sense to me. That's not only true for safelists, but also from Promo Ads I've received from people here. I'd appreciate your suggestions about how I could go about doing a bulk emailing, here at AdlandPro.
Created By: 347777

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Sat, 09 Feb 2008 03:23:26 GMT

Hi Jan,

First off, you can't send "bulk email" as a free Adland member. Adlanders and Adlander Plus (Adland upgrades) can send Direct and Targeted Direct Contact emails (1 per day) to their intire friends list. This is the only legal "bulk emailing" I know of at Adland Pro.

Next, always make sure any mailing you do is to a targeted double optin list.
Mailing or posting offers in communities should be targeted to. Like you mentioned marketers posting their biz oops to marketers doesn't make much sense, offering marketing tools and services however may make more sense in this case.

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:14:55 GMT

Thanks Scott, That explanation helps a lot, as to why it's more difficult to bulk email as a free member. Of course that gives me a slight Catch 22. I don't want to spend the money yet to upgrade, until I make some money. Didn't mean to get this subject off course re: spamming. With people here who request my friendship but are basically just promoting things to me, from that request, I'll approve the request and that's all. But with people who have just sent a personal message to me, tend to be the people here that I value more and I'll often reply to them with a personal message back in hoping to get to know them better. What was really nice when I first joined, was the many people who told me to write them if I needed help with anything. And also the people, who included links within AdlandPro, that they thought would be helpful for me to look at. Jan
Created By: 347777

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:07:52 GMT

Hello Jan,
As for "friends" request that are ads - I usually just let them roll off & never accept. I have hope that they will figure it & out & try again later. LOL!

I also know that many people send the Mass Mail & Targeted messages but, I have no clue as to what they say because I never open them or just open see that it is an ad & delete (or I sometimes just send them an ad back). With the people that always send ads - I just do not even open them anymore, yes I could miss a real message but, I really doubt it.

Many times when I have offered to help people, they then write & tell me they need help getting more people in their business. When I try to figure out what else they might need to try - they do not really want help with better advertising they just want me to join.

Ok, another soapbox message from;
Sheryl Loch ~ allmylovecrafts

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:49:46 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

I generally ignore the ad and accept them hopping they will eventually see that what they are doing does not work and look around to see if someone is doing something that is working. But like you said if they do stop and ask, they just want me to sign up, buy their product and build their downline for them.........

I must say there are a few out there that really want to learn though.

I very seldom read the direct contact or targeted messages here at Adland to. All ads, and I don't want to buy...... so no need to read them.......
Like I told Jan, I am doing some testing with the Direct contact to see if anyone will read them with with any kind of content in them.

What do you think I will find?

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:08:47 GMT

LOL!!!
Marketing to marketers!
I think it is best to market to buyers!
LOL!
Sheryl Loch ~ allmylovecrafts
ps. I did not see your direct contact message. I might have just passed it by!

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:24:24 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

My point exactly.

I didn't expect anyone to see my direct contact mail, it was an ad. I will try again with real info and a tested subject line.

Created By: 228526

Re: Would you read your ads and posts?

Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:23:51 GMT

Hi Jan,

Comes back to the question. Do you need to spend money to make money?
I am working with a bunch of marketers that are setting up a membership to help people with their marketing. We do have paid levels, but work our butts of helping everyone to make money without spending any. That site is Success Patrol.

Bulk email is the easiest way to get accused of spamming, so you weren't really off subject. In marketing communities like Adland there isn't much to worry about because the mail all goes through one of the Adland domains. Still if you abuse the system Adland Admin will stop you from mailing. They have to protect themselves from being shut down, Website hosting companies shut your site down if alerted of just one spam complaint.

I did a test the other day, if you are a friend of mine you should have gotten a direct contact from me that was an ad on Dell computer specials. I got 2 nice replies of people wanting to help me learn how to market. According to my affiliate stats there were no hits from my ad.
In my spare time, which I have little of ....... I am setting up my next test. When finished, I will post my results.

I have to say I am where I am because of the help of people I have met here at Adland .......yes there are lots of people that really will help you here.

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:07:12 GMT

Hi SCOTT

If i had time i would explain how to use this Spam to help you with more Traffic.
There are ways to use this Spam to bring Traffic to your site.
Remember they contacted you first so your not spamming them.
Qiuck Eaxmple is make a spam email address say yahoo let all there junk come your way.
Set up the Yahoo email account getting 1000's of spam emails a day and set vacation Option with a Massage and Link to your site.
There are other ways even in adland to use the Spammers to help you.Just Be creative lol!

Dennis

Created By: 265854

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:05:59 GMT

Hi Dennis,

The fact is I have one doing that right now. My yahoo account got so bad I could not find the email I wanted so I changed the addy with the people I wanted to read and set up the vacation option. I have tested with several different approaches and have not seen much response from thousands of emails sent.

You are politically correct in saying your not spamming them because they sent you their advert first. But that is a very fine line that could easily turn against anyone riding along it.

Besides!

The point of my forum thread is to help cut the spam online and get any friends reading better long term marketing results..........
By setting up responder to responder email advertising, all we are doing is overloading servers with ads of which most will never even be seen by human eyes.

Kinda like working for nothing I'd say..........

Thanks Dennis for your ideas and post.

*********************************************

I am looking for everybody's Ideas and opinions on spam and advertising in this thread. Hopefully some spammers that only need to be lead in the right direction will learn from us all and start actually getting results from their better marketing efforts.

I also invite everyone to prove any posts in this forum wrong, just please bring the proof........I'd like to see your side of the discussion, or voice your own opinion, I know everybody has one....... lol

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:42:32 GMT

Hi Scott:

I agree there are many ways to generate traffic to a web site, some are I would say in a grey area, in that they might be technically legal, but even then I would question some of these practises.

How many people have heard of programs that harvest email addresses...I shudder!
Promoting to those who spam us, in my mind is worse than useless, it is like saying..two wrongs make a right!

I know that this forum is about spamming and educating people about the effects of spamming, which by the way costs everyone in the end and I happenchance was reading a newletter from http://www.stompernet.com/ , when I saw this part...I just had to share.

"The difference between an ethical marketer and a spammer is a matter of intent. The ethical marketer seeks to profit by providing real value to real individuals. The spammer seeks only pure profit based on the laws of statistics - throw enough people at any offer, and someone will bite."

I also attended a webinar the other day and amazingly this fellow stated pretty much the same thing. His wording was.... he would rather have 100 customers than a thousand visitors. He makes more money on the 100 people because they are real and he has developed a real relationship with them. He is in Profit...what does that say??

I do believe that this answers any and all questions about how and why we should be marketing!

To Your Success,

Diane
Created By: helgit

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:40:52 GMT

Hello,
I have a problem with the above statment.

"The difference between an ethical marketer and a spammer is a matter of intent. The ethical marketer seeks to profit by providing real value to real individuals. The spammer seeks only pure profit based on the laws of statistics - throw enough people at any offer, and someone will bite."

I am sure that most of the people sending (or posting) me spam think that their product or service is of real value. So this is just something that a spammer may have wrote to make themself feel better about sending all the stuff out.

But, is their product or service of real value to me?

Have they ask me if I use or want it?

How many times do you buy or join with someone you do not know?

There are some programs that I will NOT join because their reps (affiliates) have spammed me. I am sure they have "good intent" when they send it to me.

Sheryl Loch

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:37:39 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

I am sure most people posting in our forums at least think they are adding value and are out to help everyone.
Possibly even email spamers, some just do not know they are hurting themselves by the marketing tactics they use.

We both get offers we are not interested in and don't even look at a lot of communications because we already know what it is and that we are not interested. But I think we both know we asked for it.

We have pushed the real meaning of "spam" here I think. No ones fault but mine.

Spam is unsolicisited advertising. I will repost the CAN-SPAM ACT link after this post.

When we sign up for communities like Adland to help with our marketing, we agree to receive these ads, and we have plenty of tools to shut then off if we want.

If we just complain and keep accepting every friend we can......... we should buck up and take it! I know my Adland list has been made that way.
Many other communities are the same..... They all also all involve email..... the un spam in your inbox (you asked for it)

I know in my carrier of internet marketing I have joined a lot of different communities and programs. Of course probably most of them sold their lists where ever possible..... there is my spam.... self inflicted on the most part.

What we are talking about here is either what we perceive as unethical marketing or a lack of education for the marketers that are doing it. Would this be part of the reason that 95% of people that try internet marketing fail? They start out big guns, doing what they are told.....running their marketing carrier into the ground either spamming or close to it?

I am still shooting for education. Just think, if you help them to market with more success, you just added one successful marketer to your marketing team.

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:47:18 GMT

Here is the Federal Trade Commissions post on the spam compliance for commercial emailers:

FTC Spam Requirements

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:35:55 GMT

You brought up something I love.

Perception or interpreting!

My perception of someone or something is 100% truth.

What I mean by that is - if I think a certain way about something, then that is all that counts - to me. If I am agitated by the messages you send to me about your business it does not matter what the CAN SPAM act says. I still think of your messages or post as spam.

Can you always make everyone happy? NO! But, you may want to listen to a majority. You may also want to think about what kind of messages or post adgitates you.

In fact I have gotten nasty grams from people that send me PM ads on social sites - what is their gripe? That I answered their ad with my own ad. YES, they are all mad because I spammed them back.

I do not play the spam back game on comment areas of social sites. I know that would make me look like a spammer to anyone stopping by. While I am on that - I know so many people that delete every comment posted on their profile of a social site. I say leave the comments there! If someone is Googling & hits a company or keyword in a post that is in your comments section - it will pull up your profile. BAM - you just had someone look at your page that was not even looking for you but, you may have something they want. The comment that drew them there may be 10 pages back & they will look at your banners, offers....This is why I say make sure your profile is ready! (This was my Tip of the Day!)

Sheryl Loch

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:36:56 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

I agree!

I played the spam back game for a while but decided it was taking me backward rather than moving me forward. Like you said, my name or brand on spam or even unethical marketing is a black mark on me and can be found by millions for years!

Its surprising that people do not know how comments can help them. Just look at the guru's sites. There must be a reason they want your comments.
Its all about the content you are offering. Every comment other people ad to your page or post is an incoming link and fresh content! Just what the search engines are looking for! Even this forum thread is getting lots of targeted views because of the content. the "ad" threads people post in my forum may top out at 10, 20, or some even 100 views. This thread has received almost 800 in the few weeks it has been running! Do people notice? No. They keep posting their ads........

Of course there is plenty of comment spamming out there also, being linked to that is not good and it should be deleted. I guess you have to take the good with the bad......

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:53:11 GMT

Scott, this such a great discussion and idea. I am sorry to get here late and will address your latest questions.

What we are talking about here is either what we perceive as unethical marketing or a lack of education for the marketers that are doing it.

Now that is a loaded question. Because the true professional spammers would not being doing it, if it were not profitable. Even with the Can Spam laws and more enforcement, the pro spammers keep doing it. They are either being paid to do it by advertisers or they are making sales. It works otherwise it would not increase.

Many folks in Social sites spam discussion forums such as this and seem to get by with it. That is because we are apathetic and accept a certain amount of miscrient activity, even in our social networking communities. Stop letting it happen. Educate the spammer and then use the "Report Abuse" forum Report Abuse and there will be less of of it.

Those that do it intentionally are unethical and if they have been taught the methods by coaches, programs and mentors then that is an educational issue and can be remedied. By using the enforcement tools we have at hand.

I have one account I use Spam Arrest on because of the spam that account receives. I cannot close the account as it is a primary account for me, but I do filter it very strongly.

Would this be part of the reason that 95% of people that try internet marketing fail?

Only one of many reasons, definitely not the sole reason.

Education and experience at running a business are typically the reasons and the inability to make sales. There are skills most folks do not have that need to be acquired to be truly successful. Luck doesn't hurt but skill just like in any competitive game are crucial.

They start out big guns, doing what they are told.....running their marketing carrier into the ground either spamming or close to it?

Skill One

Learn how to build your personal contact list. Talk to people that are doing this, and learn from them. We are happy to help. Be sure to talk to several before adopting your style.

Learn Skill Two

Learn how to communicate with that list. Provide real information, personal information and share your knowledge about the topic or niche your list seems to respond too. Find out what works by testing, tracking and retesting, tracking again and again. Find what works for you. Email marketing is still the number one way to build your business when done right.

Happy to add a link to our site to this forum.

Created By: jallen3d

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:49:10 GMT

Hi Jim,

There is no such thing as being late, I am glad you stopped in with your answers! Great stuff. Thanks!

Did you know that certain affiliates will pay up to hundreds of dollars for one lead? I am sure for that much they have to buy something..... but one lead can pay for a lot of spamming!

Most social sites I would think sending everyone ads would be out of place. But sites like Adland I think we should expect it to some extent.
I did a test of the direct contact here at Adland a while back and posted the results in this thread. I sent out an all out ad for one of my affiliates to over 500 Adlanders and got 0 results.
Today I sent out a direct contact email the same way only inviting people to ad their comments in this forum thread. Explaining what we were talking about here and telling them this thread had over 750 views already. Within minutes the views went to over 800 and I got one spam back email. Their Adland Direct contact mail goes to an autoresponder that returns an ad to the sender. No one looks at your mail...... (for those that don't know how it works) but not a bad average so far!

I know I used to be very general when building my communities lists. First.... I didn't know any better and 2nd, I was just trying to get the biggest list I could.

Now I have these lists. What do I send to them? I have no idea what they are interested in because I didn't target them to a certain subject. But learning to communicate with them (your step 2) will sort that out.

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:52:42 GMT

Hi Diane,

I think I know what you are trying to say but the quote you used may be telling the wrong story.

Maybe you can elaborate on what you were trying to get across?

This is what I see from your post:

You say there are many ways of abusing people on the internet for others gains, and email harvesting is one. Promoting this by buying harvested leads or not knowing how the leads were procured is as bad as doing the harvesting yourself.
With the quote your are trying to state the same basic principle. Spamming is a matter of intent.

Is Spam a matter of intent?
Don't all marketers think they are helping others by offering their products and services to, spamming or not?
Won't any marketer run a campaign based on statistics?
Throwing as many people as possible at an offer hoping to make some sales can be done without spaming. Doesn't make much sense though.

Building a huge non targeted list is impressive to other newbie marketers (even some guru's) but will not be a big moneymaker.
Relationship marketing takes longer but will keep growing and stay with you for life.
I think thats the biggest problem with internet marketing...... everyone is looking for fast money, unethical marketing tactics look like the fastest way, especially with a little sugar coating......

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:53:57 GMT

Good Morning Scott:

You are wide awake and I am on my 5th cup of

coffee...lol

Regarding the quote I used, When I had read it, it

was just after reading from another memember using in

part this particular wording:
" If I had time I would explain how to use this Spam
to help you with more Traffic.
There are ways to use this Spam to bring Traffic to
your site."

To me, the quote i used was and is very apt in that,
I will always believe that when we think a certain
way, then we will act a certain way.
If the intent of the person is to just drive traffic
to a site using what is to me questionable tactics
then what is this really saying? Being part of a
business that is teaching how to market ethically, I
can not condone this type of thinking.

I am on the other hand in total agreement that to get
noticed on the search engines we need to develop a
traffic funnel to be noticed. There are ways of
doing this that are opt in...permission based and do
work very very well. Some of these include traffic
exchanges, safelists, article writing etc. When done
using strategies and techniques that work, there is
no need to use these other questionable strategies,
as my "intent" is to add value in a variety of ways.

On Adland we do have a method of permission based
advertising with the targetted mail. This in effect
is a safelist and we did indeed say that we would get
these...lol...if they were credit based, maybe more
people would read....just a thought...

My gripe or rant if you will is when I get a
"personal" email with the subject line being " Hi
Diane" or " How are you Diane?" " Have you heard this
Diane?" I go to read and i get this advertisement -
something I did not ask for or want then to me this
is indeed creating a big controversy. Why? On one
hand here we are talking about spam in our mail, how
we dont want it, like it and how it is not appropriate
Here We are wanting people to learn how to be
credible, to be in effect good business people
in whatever business they are in AND THEN we have
people who are saying that sending this kind of mail - it is ok?
because it is here?
I dont think so!
We are giving mixed messagages when this is allowed
and is just creating one huge mess!

I would love to say, I have answers...I dont..I can on the other hand
through example, maybe show others a different way of doing things,
now that is called relationship marketing!

Thank You Scott for everything you have done here,
discussion is always good so keep up the good work :-)

To Your Success,

Diane

Created By: helgit

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Fri, 30 May 2008 08:31:58 GMT

Hi Dennis:

you said "Remember they contacted you first so you’re not spamming them": Yes, you are spamming them; that will be an unsolicited email according with the law; any way I used a while ago for two continuous months, and I cleared my main mail box, nobody writes there to me any more, I GOT WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR!

Created By: Trulyconfident

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:22:09 GMT

Here is an explaination of how a spambot can spam forums.

Most spambot forum spam consists of links, with the dual goals of increasing search engine visibility in highly competitive areas such as weight loss, pharmaceuticals, gambling, pornography, real estate or loans, and generating more traffic for these commercial websites. Some of these links contain code to track the spambot's identity if a sale goes through, when the spammer behind the spambot works on commission.

Spam posts may contain anything from a single link, to dozens of links. Text content is minimal, usually innocuous and unrelated to the forum's topic. Full banner advertisements have also been reported.

Alternately, the spam links are posted in the user's signature, in which case the spambot will never post. The link sits quietly in the signature field, where it is most likely to be harvested by search engine spiders than discovered by forum administrators and moderators.

Recently, a very destructive and malicious forum spam attacks are propagated by inserting into comments redirect domains with an automated posting script like Xrumer, these domains redirect a user to pornographic Websites, which display adult images. If a user click on the image or attempts to close the Website an ActiveX codec will be downloaded as a Zlob Trojan^[1].

Spam can also be described as posts that have no relevance to the threads topic, or have no purpose in general (e.i, a user typing "CABBAGES!" or other such useless posts in an important news thread).

See the rest of this Here

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:09:21 GMT

Well Scott having had forums for a good long time & knowing what a pain in the butt those bots can be, I have a question.

Many do not leave a link in the sig file. In fact they may leave no link that I can see at all. BUT, they run an ICQ number. I have always thought that they can trace through the ICQ number. If you can clear out all members with an ICQ then you may not get any more "spam bot" members for a good while but, as soon as you leave an ICQ you are pounded until you have them all cleared again.

A few people will tell me that ICQ numbers have nothing to do with it but, I really think they do.
Also at Bizpreneur, I am seeing the spam bot registries new accounts. They have no links at all. They have username, city, state, country, & email. I do not know the point is of them coming there when they do not post a link.

I know in both cases you see the same bot coming from rotating IP's - I assume that when blocking IP's became handy they went to running the rotating ones so you could not keep up.

At Bizpreneur I have banned email addresses. I noticed that many times we would get 50 new members at a time with an email address from @joblow.net.cn (or what ever) So by blocking anything coming from that email domain I have cut out allot of the bots. BUT, there are so many. I get rid of some & new ones come in. So, my banned list keeps growing. many of these email domains are either not found in Google or some are even up for sale. I think they may be hacking in & using the domains.

Ok, I said I had a question but, it may be a few.
Sheryl Loch

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Wed, 05 Mar 2008 01:27:43 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

ICQ has always seemed a little sneaky about something to me. I would guess that there is a hidden script in the comments that have no links, probably to harvest ICQ IDs and email addresses from your forum.

I looked around a little and found some scripts to help block spam from your forums like this one for phpbb called Anti-Spam ACP 2.0.8 (this is just the first one that cought my eye). So there are ways of doing it automaticly, of course these sripts will only work as good as they are set up.

Do not fear! Every time you find a way to block the Pro spammers ..... they will find a new way in!

Spam Mass mailers will use domains untill they get black listed and shut down, then resell the domains, and they always have a long list of IPs in rotation.

With an active forum you can end up with a huge list of banned domains, most of which were probably only live for around a week. I don't know if it is worth the trouble of banning them because each will usualy only make one or two rounds.

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 01:16:27 GMT

Some people must be to busy to read.......

I leave most all threads on my forum, it should be a good marketing lesson to anyone who looks before they post.

Can anyone find my threads by looking at the views in my forum index?

I guess people just naturally like banging their heads against the wall, I got sick of it myself

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Sun, 16 Mar 2008 04:04:57 GMT

Hey Scott,
See you do have a couple of threads - I had to acctually search for them.

I am glad that they most likely stopped in this thread to find out how we all feel about spam.

Maybe they thought it was not spam because - you needed this info. Yes, they did you a favore! LOL!
Sheryl Loch

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:55:04 GMT

Hi Sheryl,

I am sure they read this thread first.....lol

The good thing is I have easy access to almost all of the programs and products on the web from right here in my forum!

I can't complain...... it does say "Internet Marketing" in the forum title and I guess thats what they think they are doing. I wouldn't say they are much into ad tracking either......
For some reason they aren't getting many hits........
I wonder how their sales and signups are going???? lol

Created By: 228526

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:55:06 GMT

Well Scott,
I see that Springtime has got you in a great mood.

That is nice that you can just pop into your own forum & get all those links & ads. You are sooooo lucky!

Ad Tracking oh my! I sit with my ear to the monitor & listen for the sound of little mouse clicks - then I follow the trail of poop right back to where they came from. I just try not to poop in someone else's house. It just does not work out so well.

OK, it is the upper 70's & 80's here - I think my brain is burned. LOL!

Speaking of spam - I read your targeted (or email) message!! You should feel special! I popped it open so I could delete & saw your name so I read it! I think we should get that place hoppin!! I do not have a time card but will supply the match for anyone that does.

Burn My Time Card Forum

Build your backlinks using forum post, sig lines, keyword posting..... Business can not live on Adland alone. Google your name - could you use another listing?
I would say see if you have more listings than Scott - but, I see he has a bit of help. LOL!
Go to Google put "your name" in the search with the quotation marks & see how you list. You can also do this with Yahoo......
Forums are great way to get seen & heard not only by other members of that forum but also the search engines.

Sheryl Loch

Created By: AllMyLoveCrafts

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:11:14 GMT

Bonjour Scott!

Wow. I had a look at your forum index. Interesting!

Ironic is another word that comes to mind.

I haven't got a time card to burn either, but I have visited your forum and when I get the time I will join.

I don't want to join and then not be able to be an active participant, if you see what I mean.

Do something properly or don't do it at all.

I work by that motto (well, I try to).

Keep up the good work, Scott.

The message will get through, because it is a "good" and positive message. It will just take longer with some people than others!!

Angel cuddles,

Sarah

Created By: sarahp

Re: Are you sending spam? Use proper techniques to improve your marketing results

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:18:09 GMT

Bonjour Sarah,

Ironic is the word I think.... and it is interesting isn't it.

I like your Motto but its no problem if you aren't active right now, I am spread pretty thin now too and apericiate where everyone else is coming from.

Burnmytimecard.com will not be going anywhere except up in search engine rankings so you can come by and join anytime you feel you have the time. I look forward to your comments and ideas.

Thank you for your support

Created By: 228526